tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post115339993005000420..comments2024-01-27T19:26:32.604-05:00Comments on Bubble Meter: Two Townhouses For Sale Next to Each OtherDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11169148764438565562noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1155074455056488542006-08-08T18:00:00.000-04:002006-08-08T18:00:00.000-04:00I think Fritz like to call the kettle black... but...I think Fritz like to call the kettle black... but then so do i.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153676756418713842006-07-23T13:45:00.000-04:002006-07-23T13:45:00.000-04:00anon said:"dc_too, meanwhile, is sitting pretty on...anon said:<BR/>"dc_too, meanwhile, is sitting pretty on loads of real liquid equity and will probably re-purchase in 2-3 years when prices decline. Heck, maybe he will even buy his own place back for a cheaper mortgage than he had before - plus having made the $100Ks from it."<BR/><BR/>someone's dreaming ... prices continue to go up here in the District ... there's been no sign of a downturn in the least ... he's already behind in that he'd have to spend a lot more now to repurchase he property ... and that doesn't even count the transaction costs involved in selling and then re-purchasing.Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12216089306021385355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153623908097189902006-07-22T23:05:00.000-04:002006-07-22T23:05:00.000-04:00Riiiiiiiiiiight, he made 650% and he screwed up ba...Riiiiiiiiiiight, he made 650% and he screwed up badly.<BR/><BR/>You Lance however have a interest only loan, have (at some point) cashed out a 401K to afford a home, continue to believe despite mounting evidence that your home's will remain constant or increase, and will undeniably have a higher mortgage payment in 10 years time.<BR/><BR/>dc_too, meanwhile, is sitting pretty on loads of <I>real</I> liquid equity and will probably re-purchase in 2-3 years when prices decline. Heck, maybe he will even buy his own place back for a cheaper mortgage than he had before - plus having made the $100Ks from it. <BR/><BR/>Other rule of investing - if you get a great return, don't worry about whether someone else got more. You are only competing with yourself and your own strategy. A great return is a great return. Holding out until what you hope is the peak is how people end up broke - as in, they are too late to escape. In the words of Buffett - "I'm so rich because I sold too soon."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153619591166291112006-07-22T21:53:00.000-04:002006-07-22T21:53:00.000-04:00dc_too said:"Buying for me was a dumb, circumstant...dc_too said:<BR/>"Buying for me was a dumb, circumstantial accident. Recognizing it's time to go is something we can all learn. Look at the writing on the wall and give it some thought."<BR/><BR/>i don't know how to tell you this nicely .. but .. uh ... if you liked where you were living and sold it thinking "short-term investor gain", then you screwed up ... badly. Someone has probably already made a lot of money out of taking your place and reselling it. BUT, that is not the important thing to think about. The important thing is, are you really happy where you are now? I know I couldn't truly be happy outside of Dupont... I sincerely hope it is different for you. But, I suspect that all the money in the world (which is what you were aiming for) won't make you that happy!Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12216089306021385355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153596840824675162006-07-22T15:34:00.000-04:002006-07-22T15:34:00.000-04:00Um, because I was 14 years old....Um, because I was 14 years old....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153596311677253382006-07-22T15:25:00.000-04:002006-07-22T15:25:00.000-04:00DC_Too said:"It is also true, that at the bottom o...DC_Too said:<BR/>"It is also true, that at the bottom of the last bust, you could buy DC real estate, with borrowed money, at fixed, prevailing rates, for a handsome monthly discount to the cost of renting. Go figure."<BR/><BR/>given these unbelievable facts, why didn't you buy back then?Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12216089306021385355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153588195948181322006-07-22T13:09:00.000-04:002006-07-22T13:09:00.000-04:00Anon and sarah in dc are both right. Sarah is rig...Anon and sarah in dc are both right. <BR/><BR/>Sarah is right with her contention that renting and owning should 'track closely'<BR/><BR/>Anon is right because the true cost of owning is higher due to things like maintenance and a small premium for ownership.<BR/><BR/>The evidence for a bubble is not that owning is more expensive than renting right now. It is that owning is astronomically more than renting right now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153512694223076082006-07-21T16:11:00.000-04:002006-07-21T16:11:00.000-04:00DC TooSara in DCPerhaps you should read the Anony'...DC Too<BR/>Sara in DC<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you should read the Anony's post re rent parity before attempting to comment on it. And if you did read the post, I'd suggest you try to improve your level of reading comprehension.<BR/><BR/>Anony didn't refer to data from 1997 to now in support of long term trends of rent v. housing cost parity. But both of your response accuse anony of making this statement. Why would you do that, perhaps to evade the point made by anony?<BR/><BR/>Sara in DC had previously stated that owning and renting costs are not at parity because there's a bubble. In other words, she insinuated that owning and renting expenses should be at parity absent a real estate bubble. Sara in DC's only "proof" that owning and renting costs are at parity, absent a bubble, was that in 2000 her condo PITI was "almost exactly" the same as renting a similar unit. <BR/><BR/>Sara in DC's belief that renting and owning costs are at parity, absent a bubble, is based on one flimsy example--her condo in Arlington in 2000. This is classic bubblehead logic: Take one example, no matter how isolated or unusual, and regard it as representative of widespread market trends. <BR/><BR/>Why did Sara in DC not present any other proof supporting her belief that renting and owning costs are at parity, absent a bubble? Because she can't. Owning is historically more expensive than renting. This is widely acknowledged by sophisticated persons. Anony pointed one of David's posts as an example in support of Sara in DC's erroneous statemant, (and did not once suggest that this example was comprehensive proof-and obviously wouldn't have expected someone like Sara in DC and DC Too to be so unaware of basis real estate economics). <BR/><BR/>If Sara in DC and DC Too would carefully read posts rather than making reactionary, negative responses, perhaps they'd learn something; for example, maybe they'd learn that they may be renting a long time while waiting to buy until rent and owning costs are at parity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153507583005329602006-07-21T14:46:00.000-04:002006-07-21T14:46:00.000-04:00My friend has over 20 properties he bought with th...My friend has over 20 properties he bought with the "no money down" late night tactics. He says if he has to walk away, so what? He will just go back to Argentina. This guy NEVER went to school and can barely read/write.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153496915836256342006-07-21T11:48:00.000-04:002006-07-21T11:48:00.000-04:00I guess you missed the part where I said I didn't ...<I>I guess you missed the part where I said I didn't buy this as an investment but as a home. Who cares if the equity evaporates? Like someone said, it's only on paper until you sell the house anyways.</I><BR/><BR/>I understand what you are saying Lance but it does not make buying a good idea! I am not going to ask how much you have in other investments, but for many, many homeowners, the cost of ownership means that owning a home (for investment purposes or just to "live,") precluded them from spending $ on almost everything else. They are probably barely contributing to their 401Ks and certainly not shoveling cash into mutual funds, equities, etc.<BR/><BR/>For folks like this (and you) best case scenario is that you can afford your interest rate reset when it happens, never lose a job or otherwise have to/choose to move, and have a roof over your head. But if that equity dissapears, you've got nothing else. Nada. Nothing to sell to put the kids through college. Nothing to cash in on to retire. Nothing in case of an emergency.<BR/><BR/>When homeownership is this expensive, the "always better to own/rent is throwing $ away agrument" does not apply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153492188091058472006-07-21T10:29:00.000-04:002006-07-21T10:29:00.000-04:00"But in most major cities, rental costs never reac..."But in most major cities, rental costs never reach parity with ownership. Look at NYC for instance. rents are sky high. Housing prices are even higher. No parity in sight.<BR/><BR/>They aren't at the moment, obviously, because we're in a bubble in most major cities. But they have and do reach parity or very near parity in normal markets." <BR/><BR/><BR/>Obviously many bubbleheads such as Sara rely on self-selected, anecdotal evidence as proof of their bursting bubble. But, of course, one example of rent vs. own costs in Arlington in 2000 falls far short of establishing historical "normal levels." A study previously posted by David shows that rents and ownership costs have never been at parity in Washington metro area since 1997 (that’s as far back as study went, although there’s no reason to suspect that rent and owning costs were equal pre-1997 either).<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>http://bubblemeter.blogspot.com/2006/02/real-estate-pe-ratio-for-washington-dc.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153464778869340192006-07-21T02:52:00.000-04:002006-07-21T02:52:00.000-04:00Somebody sitting on a large savings nest-egg shoul...Somebody sitting on a large savings nest-egg should sit on the nest egg for now. It would be a bad choice plowing a large amount of cash into such an illiquid, risky investment with such high transaction costs.<BR/><BR/>Somebody who has nothing *might* do well to take one of those "100% financing, neg-am payment option" loans. On the upside houses could still (theoretically) rise. If they don't, then they got a cheap place to stay for a while. Though I'm not sure of the consequences of such a foreclosure, it seems the downside is limited.<BR/><BR/>And that's the irony. A decent deal in today's market almost requires that you spend huge amounts of your money on interest.<BR/><BR/>People who've become the richest in real estate, however, purchase RE when money is tight and hard to borrow, and sell when it's loose. (This assumes you can have instant cash to put in a place.) Think about it. If you had $600k in cash a year ago and went to buy a house, you'd have to worry about outbidding coffee jockeys, bus boys, divorced dental assistants, and crack whores just to get the place.<BR/><BR/>When lending is tight, the people with the cash can almost name their own price.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153464269150632782006-07-21T02:44:00.000-04:002006-07-21T02:44:00.000-04:00You’ve got to watch this CBS clip. She sounds like...You’ve got to watch this CBS clip. She sounds like a female version of Lance.<BR/><BR/>I get a kick out of the end remarks. "I wanna just get my equity" She will be very lucky to sell the place.<BR/><BR/>Thu Jul 20 2006 Sellers are king no more in San Diego!! <BR/><BR/>http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml<BR/><BR/><BR/>Link discovered on,http://www.forsakencraft.com/mainframe.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153463841589113622006-07-21T02:37:00.000-04:002006-07-21T02:37:00.000-04:00Lance,If you've locked in a good loan interest onl...Lance,<BR/><BR/>If you've locked in a good loan interest only for 10 years... You're set. Well done. :) <BR/><BR/>But I know far too many people who have a tenuous grip on their home and will probably be forced to sell before 2008 as their loan payments skyrocket. :(<BR/><BR/>Like I said... If I'm wrong, Cest La vie. I'll move to where I can afford a home. <BR/><BR/>Neilwannabuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04297458705683991405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153454177985913342006-07-20T23:56:00.000-04:002006-07-20T23:56:00.000-04:00"When you buy a home, all you care about is that y..."When you buy a home, all you care about is that you have locked in affordable payments for the longterm."<BR/><BR/>And since that isn't the case with buying a home today, i guess that explains why demand is drying up, inventories are lengthening, and prices are beginning the descent.<BR/><BR/>"I'm am not living on the condition of someone else's good graces."<BR/><BR/>Neither are renters. Landlords compete for our business. We're the consumer. Landlords have to make us happy in order to keep our business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153451457726027962006-07-20T23:10:00.000-04:002006-07-20T23:10:00.000-04:00Anonymous said... "Lance - calm down. Right now yo...Anonymous said... <BR/>"Lance - calm down. Right now you don't know if the market will work for you or not. As you revealed, you have an interest-only loan for the next 10 years. As of right now you are not even paying towards your principal. <BR/><BR/>That mean if prices decline you could see all the equity you have been building since your first condo evaporate.<BR/><BR/>That's the danger of continually rolling over the equity. You might never get to cash out."<BR/><BR/>I guess you missed the part where I said I didn't buy this as an investment but as a home. Who cares if the equity evaporates? Like someone said, it's only on paper until you sell the house anyways. I think a lot of bubbleheads aren't making the move into homeownership because they aren't able to differentiate between buying a home and making an investment. When you buy a home, all you care about is that you have locked in affordable payments for the longterm. You're not out to sell the house or cash in on the profits UNLESS the opportunity presents itself such as when I decided the time was right to move from a condo to a house. If the economics hadn't made sense, I would have just stayed in my condo. The crux of the matter is that I had a roof over my head that as long as I made that affordable monthly payment NO ONE could throw me out of it either through eviction or by raising the rent. It was mine. Just like the house. I'm am not living on the condition of someone else's good graces. The ONLY thing I have to do is make that affordable payment. And even if I didn't, did you know it takes years to foreclose on someone and take their home from them? (Well, maybe not in Virginia ... )Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12216089306021385355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153449978615451222006-07-20T22:46:00.000-04:002006-07-20T22:46:00.000-04:00Lance - calm down. Right now you don't know if th...Lance - calm down. Right now you don't know if the market will work for you or not. As you revealed, you have an interest-only loan for the next 10 years. As of right now you are not even paying towards your principal. <BR/><BR/>That mean if prices decline you could see all the equity you have been building since your first condo evaporate.<BR/><BR/>That's the danger of continually rolling over the equity. You might never get to cash out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153443654379579292006-07-20T21:00:00.000-04:002006-07-20T21:00:00.000-04:00anon said:"Lance, try making a lucid statement. I ...anon said:<BR/>"Lance, try making a lucid statement. I know the market isn’t working for you and you are expressing an emotional moment."<BR/><BR/>haha ... the market IS working well for me ... though obviously you are still waiting for that cataclysmic moment when you can afford to buy a professional's house on a mcdonald's checkout person's wages!Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12216089306021385355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153441219614757812006-07-20T20:20:00.000-04:002006-07-20T20:20:00.000-04:00I've gone through this topic and found some intere...I've gone through this topic and found some interesting and some emotional posts. <BR/><BR/>I happen to agree with Va_investor 100% that society is FAR better off is the lower middle class and middle class own their own homes. I also believe that *in the long run* one does better owning their own home. <BR/><BR/>Due to a "nomadic" lifestyle, I missed out on the real estate boom. If I had bought prior to 2002, I'd be sitting pretty... But I didn't so let's look at today's market.<BR/><BR/>1) The market is always based on 1st time home buyers. Everyone noted that "if you don't buy know, you'll be priced out" and look... For the most part its happened. The vast majority of the remaining 30% of the population who doesn't own a home cannot afford to buy in.<BR/><BR/>2) Americans have borrowed against their homes like no tomorrow. Once upon a time, the median 50 year old would be expected to own 75% of their house. Now? Its more like 20% to 25%. A healthy enough amount though...<BR/><BR/>But I have so many coworkers who have borrowed to the limit I just don't see how they'll survive their mortgage reset. We have one guy working every possible hour of overtime to double his base pay. Why? Anything less and he defaults on his mortgage! Since the stats suggest most Americans have pulled out the money, this has me worry.<BR/><BR/>3) The economy is cooling and cooling *fast*. Look at the total dollars of high end TV's. Guess what, its started to drop. Yes, unit sales are up, but the total dollars paid for the TV's are stagnant or dropping. Look at the middle class restaurants (e.g., stock symbols RI, OSI, CAKE) and notice something? Their same store sales are dropping (never a good sign). Ok, a tiny drop, but inflation alone should make same store restaurant sales grow YOY!<BR/><BR/>4) Its only a question of when, not if, we will have over 1 million homes for sale in the USA. With 40% of sales the last few years being 2nd homes... I think a lot of people will want to cash out (or have to sell).<BR/><BR/>But other housing bubbles have gone down as fast (or faster) than they went up. The last I can recall where so many people bought property expecting someone rich to come in and buy it off them was Florida 1926! <BR/><BR/>So I do expect home prices to drop. To what? 3X earnings in "fly over country" and 6X earnings on the coasts. Yes, the traditional multiples we always drop to in recessions. Note, in the past, properties wouldn't exceed 8X multiples!!! So now that we're at 10X... Will the 6X "bottom" still hold? Could it be higher? I doubt it, young people do want to own... So I do expect 5X earnings to be this downturns floor. <BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm pessimistic because my industry is starting to lay off. :( Maybe I'm pessimistic because of all of the movie industry layoffs reported in the LA times this morning. Or maybe its because I know too many people who cannot hire at "normal" salaries into bubble housing markets as people want at least a hope that they'll be a homeowner. At this point in my career I'm a "hiring manager." So are most of my friends and cousins. If we cannot hire at a wage where a profit can be expected... one doesn't hire. Simple as that. I have an uncle who wants to hire for his small business. He and his partner figured they could make another $300k profit a year if they hired an additional staff of 5 to 8. (They already have enough office space leased.) Well... people won't move to greater LA for the wages that attracted people three or four years ago. Net result: they'll spend more time on the golf course. Why? To raise wages enough to attract trained people would not have boosted their profits. In fact, if staff demand too rapid of pay increases... They'll cut clients. Its not worth working to death for no profit. :)<BR/><BR/>I myself will probably be living in "fly over" country in two years. I have enough saved to buy cash a decent 4 bedroom home on a lake in areas where I could get a job (transfer within my company). I won't be leading the exodus, but my industry simply cannot sustain wages that will let people become home owners anymore in southern California. So rather than lose good people, we'll shrink here and grow elsewhere. Cest la vie. When a rumor started at work that I might lead a team of 50 to Austin (the size of my staffing pool)... I quickly had too many volunteers! Out of a staff of only 400. (Oh... I had to squash that rumor quick...) <BR/><BR/>As to saving money while renting... I am. Yes, I missed out on "paper equity" but renting saves me over $36k/year after taxes. Long term I know I'll get that back in appreciation... But California has always given up 20% of property values after a "boom." The "boom" is over... I know of far too many Fortune 500 companies that are about to announce layoffs here in SoCal... <BR/><BR/>So I'll wait.<BR/><BR/>Will prices drop 50%? Wages suggest it will be so. I'll base my buying decision based on the inventory of homes on the market. But why would I buy a townhome for $600k when on Craigslist I find identical ones renting for $1,100 to $1,500 a month?!? I'll save... I'll wait. And I'll probably buy in late 2008 (the question is where). <BR/><BR/>Oh, my career's wages don't vary much nationally... so its not like a financial analyst who can make multiples more in NYC than Dallas.<BR/><BR/>And who is left to buy? No one at my work who doesn't own has any interest to buy in this area.<BR/><BR/>Ok, its not DC... but the fundamentals are the same. Home prices should be a multiple of wages. In nice areas 6x to 8X the median wages is ok (like DC). <BR/><BR/>It only takes 2% of the homes in an area being on the market to create a crash. We'll see that in most bubble areas but end of 2Q07.<BR/><BR/>If I'm wrong... Cest la vie. I'll move to where I can live well. :) <BR/><BR/>But Dc_too noted the famous "shoe shine boy." I've heard the "elevator operator" story too. Well, my hair dresser is giving flipping advice... <BR/><BR/>And don't forget with S&P changing the bond ratings on mortgage backed securities... Market based initiatives will cool mortgage lending pretty quickly. It won't stop... But expect it to be more rational. Which is going to stop speculation... <BR/><BR/>Neilwannabuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04297458705683991405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153439008429430072006-07-20T19:43:00.000-04:002006-07-20T19:43:00.000-04:00Lance said:"Other bubbleheads more times than not ...Lance said:<BR/>"Other bubbleheads more times than not also base their arguments on this flawed assumption that someone or something is out there deciding what prices should be charged. Folks, please wake up. It's us acting collectively that come up with selling prices. Houses will sell at the point where it is the lowest a seller is willing to go and the highest a buyer is willing (and able) to go!<BR/><BR/>Lance, try making a lucid statement. I know the market isn’t working for you and you are expressing an emotional moment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153437850548454002006-07-20T19:24:00.000-04:002006-07-20T19:24:00.000-04:00Thanks, anon 3:22 for that link. The $699K sale p...Thanks, anon 3:22 for that link. The $699K sale price isn't reflected yet, but that's because the sale is so recent.<BR/><BR/>Nonetheless, take a look at 8511 Cameron Street. It sold for $710K on June 14, 2006.<BR/><BR/>Maybe the agent actually under-priced this townhouse (though maybe the others that sold for $699K+ were bigger/had more upgrades).<BR/><BR/>JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153435053481547772006-07-20T18:37:00.000-04:002006-07-20T18:37:00.000-04:00anon 7:57 said:"IMO, the (sad?) fact is that two w...anon 7:57 said:<BR/>"IMO, the (sad?) fact is that two working professionals are now "expected" to be able to afford $500k."<BR/> <BR/>Look at how you worded this ... As if there is someone or some entity out there that actually comes up with these prices ... and bases it on various factors including (according to what you said) what the "culture" thinks about two-earner families. Other bubbleheads more times than not also base their arguments on this flawed assumption that someone or something is out there deciding what prices should be charged. Folks, please wake up. It's <I>us</I> acting collectively that come up with selling prices. Houses will sell at the point where it is the lowest a seller is willing to go and the highest a buyer is willing (and able) to go!Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12216089306021385355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153434830798412722006-07-20T18:33:00.000-04:002006-07-20T18:33:00.000-04:00Anon has some foolish issues.Like not being able t...Anon has some foolish issues.<BR/>Like not being able to pencil out an equation.<BR/><BR/>Okay- I do have capital, and i have in the past owned rentals- quite profitably in here in Phoenix.<BR/><BR/>When would I buy? When the property runs out at 80 to 120 times monthly rent potential. <BR/>This simple equation tells me where I have to be cover the piti and upkeep. If I can't find a property that meets that, I keep my money in my pocket.<BR/>The renters here can do the math and come up with the equivalent rent versus own. So, if housing is not overpriced, why aren't you snapping up units at the now slightly distressed prices?<BR/>BTW on Calculated Risk there is a good entry that details the typical real estate downturn has the heaviest damage in years 3 to 5- considering this is the first year of the downturn.<BR/><BR/>If you won't put your own muney down into a rental- then buy some stock in the homebuilders- they have a great p/e right now as they just begin their search for a bottom.<BR/><BR/>Pischer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153434168205079012006-07-20T18:22:00.001-04:002006-07-20T18:22:00.001-04:00To those who cares about details,look at the house...To those who cares about details,<BR/>look at the houses below, thanks to John for the street address.<BR/>So 50% profit in less than 3 years!<BR/>Not bad.<BR/><BR/>11/21/2003 Price: $478,000 <BR/>New Price: $699,000 for only 1,368 SF. <BR/><BR/>http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/rp_rewrite/results.asp?streetNumber=&streetName=Cameron&county=16&intMenu=2&SearchType=Street&submit4=SEARCHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-1153434144163687192006-07-20T18:22:00.000-04:002006-07-20T18:22:00.000-04:00I had some section 8 tenants back in the early 90'...I had some section 8 tenants back in the early 90's and with the amount of rent the gov't was paying, they could have bought homes for these people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com