tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post4052767947914085860..comments2024-01-27T19:26:32.604-05:00Comments on Bubble Meter: Will foreclosed homeowners get their homes back?Davidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11169148764438565562noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-47079461138791852872010-11-23T21:02:21.365-05:002010-11-23T21:02:21.365-05:00Nobody can argue the fact that there is a lot of p...Nobody can argue the fact that there is a lot of pain out there with the loss of jobs and over leveraged balance sheets; however if one doesn't have the ability to pay their mortgage, then there is no right to keep the home. These technicalities will be corrected and sooner or later the lender will have the right to seize the collateral pledged for their non-performing loan.Tylerhttp://www.CharlotteREblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-51426502212475691432010-11-02T16:34:17.160-04:002010-11-02T16:34:17.160-04:00I was reading your blog and thought i would leave ...I was reading your blog and thought i would leave you this: Bank Of America Has Admitted Finding Errors In 102,000 Foreclosure Files:<br />http://www.irvineforeclosurelink.com/bank-america-bac-acknowledged-finding-errors-foreclosure-fles-bgins-resubmit-documents-102000-cases-wallsteet-joural-reports/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-29223399178295776162010-10-31T12:30:10.699-04:002010-10-31T12:30:10.699-04:00"The BANK owns your home until you have paid ..."The BANK owns your home until you have paid them back."<br /><br />Thats just flat out wrong. Outside of the "title theory" states, the bank, just like the city or county has what can be described as an "inchoate possessory interest" in the property. There is no "ownership" transferred until the foreclosure by the bank or the city or county as the case may be.<br /><br />This is apparently frustrating to a handful of bloggers who like to refer to it as homedebtorship. Still, the concept of ownership is clear - the person on the deed to the house has it. The entity on the deed of trust or mortgage on the house (i.e. the bank) does not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-70962917944885897962010-10-30T15:28:32.790-04:002010-10-30T15:28:32.790-04:00"Why stop at 95% down? Why not make it 100% d..."Why stop at 95% down? Why not make it 100% down, but you decide not to pay your taxes?"<br /><br />Because at 100% down, the bank no longer owns the home. You actually own it. Your home, car, paycheck and even the shirt on your back can be taken away even if you dont pay your income taxes....so why stop at property taxes?<br /><br />Being behind on any taxes or even being sued have nothing to do with ownership of your house. Although your home could be taken away from you if someone sued you for enough money....it still has nothing to do with who owns it. The BANK owns your home until you have paid them back. Simple, not confusing, not complicated, even oboe can understand that concept...he is just playing dumb.<br /><br />So please, don't you get retarded on us here too buddy.flutenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-4700138090785938962010-10-30T15:23:17.088-04:002010-10-30T15:23:17.088-04:00"Going back to the original scenario:"
..."Going back to the original scenario:"<br /><br />The bank buys the home outright and owns the house. You get to live in it while you pay them back. You dont own the actual house until you have paid in full.<br /><br />There is no "both pay $1000 for the horse."<br /><br />The correct "thought experiment" would be...<br /><br />"We sign a contract. I buy a horse for you and you get to ride it until you pay me back. If you miss a payment or dont follow any other rules of the horse that I own, you no longer get to ride the horse."flutenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-67314982222631898232010-10-28T14:17:53.511-04:002010-10-28T14:17:53.511-04:00"Oboe said...At least we're getting some ..."Oboe said...At least we're getting some insight into why certain folks become irrationally frustrated over the use of pretty anodyne terms. Lot of imprecise thinking going on out there."<br /><br />Right. Flute's basic point seems to be whether its 50% down, 95% down, etc., it can still be taken from you, therefore you dont "own" it. <br /><br />Why stop at 95% down? Why not make it 100% down, but you decide not to pay your taxes? In this case, the city forecloses, therefore you dont even "own" it at 100%.<br /><br />Since ownership is an impossibility, seems like we should just strike the term "ownership" out of existence. These people are not "homeowners", they are "home________"!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-62784072449255869402010-10-28T13:39:41.990-04:002010-10-28T13:39:41.990-04:00Nothing irritates me more than the practice of ref...<i>Nothing irritates me more than the practice of referring to homedebtors as "homeowners."</i><br /><br />At least we're getting some insight into why certain folks become irrationally frustrated over the use of pretty anodyne terms. Lot of imprecise thinking going on out there.oboenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-6508926051031096502010-10-28T13:36:20.340-04:002010-10-28T13:36:20.340-04:00@flute:
Going back to the original scenario:
Let...@flute:<br /><br />Going back to the original scenario:<br /><br /><i>Let's do a simple thought experiment. Let's say you and I buy a horse together. We each pay $1000. We also sign a contract that says, we will wash, brush, feed and water the horse on alternating days. If either of us neglects our duties for two consecutive days, the other gets sole ownership.</i><br /><br />In your analysis then, if <b><i>you</i></b> eventually neglect your duties, it means <b><i>I</i></b> owned the horse all along. Conversely, if <b><i>I</i></b> eventually fail to hold up my end of the agreement, <b><i>you</i></b> owned the horse all along.<br /><br />A bit like Schroedinger's Horse--very quantuum of you.oboenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-68966569392644588852010-10-28T13:01:51.641-04:002010-10-28T13:01:51.641-04:00p.s. Lets take that experiment further!!
Put 95% ...p.s. Lets take that experiment further!!<br /><br />Put 95% down on a house and dont make a single payment. The bank will still take your house from you! (of course, because THEY actually own it) Try it!flutenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-81826230064214503492010-10-28T12:59:48.798-04:002010-10-28T12:59:48.798-04:00"Wait, so you have no ownership stake in the ..."Wait, so you have no ownership stake in the house whatsoever until you you pay them in full? What about if you put 50% down? "<br /><br />Tell you what. You put 50% down on a house and dont pay a single payment. Come back here and tell us what happened.<br /><br />;)flutenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-81437965821974059092010-10-28T11:59:38.431-04:002010-10-28T11:59:38.431-04:00Yeah but the bank isnt sharing the cost of the hor...<i>Yeah but the bank isnt sharing the cost of the horse. They are BUYING THE HORSE OUTRIGHT FOR YOU. <b>They own it until you pay them back in full and with interest</b>....which is exactly why assholes can mail their keys right back to the bank and walk away.</i><br /><br />Wait, so you have no ownership stake in the house whatsoever until you you pay them in full? What about if you put 50% down? 15%? Is there some arbitrary threshold of equity at which you become an "owner"?<br /><br /><i>You kinda suck at thought experiments.</i><br /><br />Clearly. One of the key considerations of a good "thought experiment" is that it lead one's audience through the issue in the most simple way possible. Obviously I failed in your case.<br /><br />:)oboenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-7911752083826133012010-10-27T06:08:32.927-04:002010-10-27T06:08:32.927-04:00I think that your post is totally relevant in a ti...I think that your post is totally relevant in a time when number of foreclosed properties has reached record levels. Many home owners are going through the trauma of watching their properties being foreclosed and there are others who are on the verge of having their properties being foreclosed. I would like to mention here that from the months of June to September, 288,345 properties have been seized by the bank all over the country. It has also been revealed that approximately 930,437 number of people received foreclosures warnings during the same period.Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07158732908386221739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-10899779107345336652010-10-26T23:06:46.385-04:002010-10-26T23:06:46.385-04:00"Let's do a simple thought experiment. Le..."Let's do a simple thought experiment. Let's say you and I buy a horse together. We each pay $1000."<br /><br />Yeah but the bank isnt sharing the cost of the horse. They are BUYING THE HORSE OUTRIGHT FOR YOU. They own it until you pay them back in full and with interest....which is exactly why assholes can mail their keys right back to the bank and walk away.<br /><br />You kinda suck at thought experiments.flutenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-29625675151173661102010-10-26T17:39:26.863-04:002010-10-26T17:39:26.863-04:00still think I am correct. cracks in the dam are gi...still think I am correct. cracks in the dam are giving way - bell curve shifted by government intervention, and when the dam breaks all downstream will be drowned, and the curve overshoots. <br /><br />Of course, there is a way out...that is to make the dollar near worthless to keep prices "stable".nonpartisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669991779523375897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-5791569064872503892010-10-26T15:23:01.374-04:002010-10-26T15:23:01.374-04:00Oops - dont know what happened there, but that las...Oops - dont know what happened there, but that last post was from me, PartisanPartisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00213689860708073032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-41723140897114284412010-10-26T15:09:43.513-04:002010-10-26T15:09:43.513-04:00"Montpellier said...
I gotta say: it looks go..."Montpellier said...<br />I gotta say: it looks good for Partisan - the CS numbers do make it look like DC is gonna be different. It's not super-suprising since DC employment remains strong. I've started tracking forclosures in detail in my little micro-environment and even with a real pickup in foreclosures, inventory is down and listings are moving pretty darn quickly, and pretty much at the bubble plateau."<br /><br />See, this is why I dont pick on you. You are bearish, but bearish based on metrics. And likewise, when those metrics change (or hold) you change your outlook. This is fine, this is what normal people do. <br /><br />Contrast that with our friends NOZ and his lil buddy NONPARTISAN. <br /><br />NOZ was mostly just a clueless idiot. He meant well, but he had no idea what was happening here in DC. Further, no matter how many fundamentals changed, he kept insisting Case Shiller (DC) will hit 135 by 2013. Wow - just wow... <br /><br />Even worse was NONPARTISAN. He doesnt give a rats ass about income gains, months of inventory, jobs, etc, etc,. All he does is make projections (CS will hit 100 by 2013) based on platitudes such as "all bell curves correct". Further, no matter how much fundamentals change (for better or for worse) he never changed his outlook - EVER!!! <br /><br />NOZ has run away so I assume its because he now knows he is wrong and doesnt want to admit it. I kinda expected this - cowardly, but rational behavior. <br /><br />Whats more interesting is NONPARTISAN. He continues to post here, meaning he may not yet think he is wrong - brave, but quite possibly insane behavior. <br /><br />But again, nothing against you MP (one way or another). I always knew you were not insane :)therealpartisan@gmail.comhttp://anonsucksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-71035248431145443062010-10-26T14:41:26.280-04:002010-10-26T14:41:26.280-04:00Lyndon LaRouche -- wow, that takes me back. Even ...Lyndon LaRouche -- wow, that takes me back. Even if the guy had a point he couldn't express it. At the end didn't they jail him for credit card fraud or some such? Can't see that he was ever about more than soliciting donations.<br /><br />oboe, yeah, my bad -- Montpellier is just so tiresome -- but I should leave him alone. I was frustrated by trying to see if he had some good points buried in there and when I couldn't find any, well, I struck out. Again, my bad.<br /><br />On a serious note, if we look at the infrastructure needs to support suburbia for another 100 years it's hard to imagine that we'll have money for anything else. Highways alone are a staggering undertaking, and once built, they have to be maintained.<br /><br />I can see why planners find closing the suburbs and moving the population into urban centers with robust public transportation so attractive. And it works in many parts of Europe. <br /><br />Rush hour is a great argument for a paradigm shift of some kind. Masses of people growing old behind the wheel separated from their lives and loved ones on a crawling river of asphalt. Surely there has to be a better way to do it. <br /><br />Anyway, I'll say 'hi' to Lyndon for you. Time for his walk anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-89422998300213663222010-10-26T14:20:16.834-04:002010-10-26T14:20:16.834-04:00I gotta say: it looks good for Partisan - the CS n...I gotta say: it looks good for Partisan - the CS numbers do make it look like DC is gonna be different. It's not super-suprising since DC employment remains strong. I've started tracking forclosures in detail in my little micro-environment and even with a real pickup in foreclosures, inventory is down and listings are moving pretty darn quickly, and pretty much at the bubble plateau.<br /><br />I *still* think it's a little nuts and prices *should* fall, but I'm increasingly persuaded that the DC bubble (by which I mean inside the beltway - which is more selective than the CS MSA) is in part due to some other fundamental shifts that would have happened anyway.<br /><br />I don't think the MBA purchase index predicted this month's up-tick in sales. I'm tracking the foreclosures because I believe the banks are trying to manage inventory here - mainly because DC is not in free fall yet. <br /><br />@Anonymous: Strike a nerve there buddy? I don't work for anyone (at least, none of this is related in any way to my work or my portfolio) though it wouldn't matter a bit if I did: I offered my arguments and the evidence for them. They can stand on their own merits.Scott_Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10337416641945457289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-657369779437277152010-10-26T11:55:58.711-04:002010-10-26T11:55:58.711-04:00@Partisan:
That's just cruel.
Glad I didn...@Partisan:<br /><br />That's just cruel.<br /><br />Glad I didn't sell my house on his excellent advice, though.oboenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-16222587077890697472010-10-26T11:49:04.926-04:002010-10-26T11:49:04.926-04:00"Nonpartisan said...And now it is time to Wat..."Nonpartisan said...And now it is time to Watch-and-Learn again - beginning August 2010, you will see a RAPID decline in home prices resume - there will be no immunozone. May 15, 2010 7:37 AM"<br /><br /><br /><br />BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00213689860708073032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-47069866291285219232010-10-26T11:37:56.562-04:002010-10-26T11:37:56.562-04:00Hey, Monty is a zealot steeped in cliches.
You kn...<i>Hey, Monty is a zealot steeped in cliches.</i><br /><br />You know, the true mark of a lunatic is an irrational projection. Nothing quite as entertaining as a spittle-flecked meandering discourse on "Big Green" coming for your children's wombs which--when met with quite reasonable arguments that suburbia is heavily subsidized by every facet of our national budget--results in accusations of "conspiracy-theory mongering".<br /><br />Our logorrheaic "Anonymous" is starting to sound like the resident Lyndon LaRouche fanboy.oboenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-59097064399440457002010-10-26T11:28:23.274-04:002010-10-26T11:28:23.274-04:00Who owns the house when you dont pay ANY payments ...<i>Who owns the house when you dont pay ANY payments on your mortgage? Oh thats right, the bank does!!!</i><br /><br />Let's do a simple thought experiment. Let's say you and I buy a horse together. We each pay $1000. We also sign a contract that says, we will wash, brush, feed and water the horse on alternating days. If either of us neglects our duties for two consecutive days, the other gets sole ownership.<br /><br />Who "owns" the horse? By definition, the answer is "No one".<br /><br />As I said, silly semantic games.oboenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-74543326900904832982010-10-26T11:22:12.705-04:002010-10-26T11:22:12.705-04:00Hey, Monty is a zealot steeped in cliches. My wif...Hey, Monty is a zealot steeped in cliches. My wife's family is thick with them -- maybe we are related! <br /><br />No argument will move him, no information will change his thinking. And he can't learn from experience so it seems. <br /><br />Raygun -- Manassholes -- really? That enhances the discourse in what way? Really showing your depth Monty. Keep it up. <br /><br />Oh well, I'm sorry. Shouldn't make fun.<br /><br />Have a good day, Monty! Why don't we close with a flourish of your clever misspellings? Maybe Rayhole or Assgun -- see I can't do it as well as you, but who can?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-43851007235587326972010-10-26T10:51:40.699-04:002010-10-26T10:51:40.699-04:00Nationally, Year over year inventories are up, sal...Nationally, Year over year inventories are up, sales of new and existing homes are down, mortgage loan applications are down, unemployment is high, and other major economic indicators are not good.<br /><br />But DC is different! The people in the DC area are better than the people everywhere else! That explains the difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-37274855410483854602010-10-26T10:13:11.980-04:002010-10-26T10:13:11.980-04:00BTW, Montpellier -- my second-to-last post was not...BTW, Montpellier -- my second-to-last post was not an invitation for you to participate in the PR spin I mentioned. <br /><br />It was an invitation to educate yourself so you don't have to resort to the debate style of an eight-year-old, pointing your finger and yelling "conspiracy theory" at anything that doesn't immediately suit you... (or your employer?).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com