tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post7884022025643691670..comments2024-01-27T19:26:32.604-05:00Comments on Bubble Meter: Open QuestionDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11169148764438565562noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-38628215922833033622009-01-02T11:01:00.000-05:002009-01-02T11:01:00.000-05:00"It had _EVERYTHING_ to do with slavery as an econ..."It had _EVERYTHING_ to do with slavery as an economic system and as a way of life."<BR/><BR/>I Agree.<BR/><BR/>"Arlington and Alexandria essentially ceded from the union prior to the rest of the confederacy."<BR/><BR/>I Agree.<BR/><BR/>"The fact that VA itself hadn't formally left the Union (for the sme reasons) is immaterial."<BR/><BR/>I said not exactly. You said they "used to be Washington DC until Virginia ceded from the Union". I said "not exactly" because the dates were wrong. Exactly would mean the dates would line up - they dont.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line is they did secede in large part due to slavery. Alexandria had one of the largest slave trading markets in the world back then. However, all I am trying to point out, for the mere sake of historical accuracy, is that they were retroceded in 1846-47, NOT when VA ceded from the union.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-40853844389444130442009-01-02T10:26:00.000-05:002009-01-02T10:26:00.000-05:00Your link to an "alexandria.gov" website is hilari...Your link to an "alexandria.gov" website is hilarious! Here is a less biased perspective on the history of Alexandria:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_dc" REL="nofollow">During the 1830s, the District's southern county of Alexandria went into economic decline, due in part to heavy competition with the port of Georgetown, which was further inland and on the C&O Canal.[16] At the time, Alexandria was a major market in the American slave trade, but rumors circulated that abolitionists were attempting to end slavery in the nation's capital.[17] Partly to avoid an end to the lucrative slave trade, a referendum to ask for the retrocession of Alexandria passed in 1846. On July 9 of that year, Congress agreed to return all the District's territory south of the Potomac River back to the Commonwealth of Virginia.[16]</A><BR/><BR/>It had _EVERYTHING_ to do with slavery as an economic system and as a way of life. Arlington and Alexandria essentially ceded from the union prior to the rest of the confederacy. The fact that VA itself hadn't formally left the Union (for the same reasons) is immaterial. To argue otherwise is an attempt to perpetrate revisionist history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-84330311718295382192009-01-02T09:26:00.000-05:002009-01-02T09:26:00.000-05:00"Anon said...Well, the Pentagon stands in wha..."Anon said...<BR/><BR/>Well, the Pentagon stands in what used to be Washington DC until Virginia ceded from the Union in an attempt to preserve slavery as a system of economics and as a way of life.<BR/><BR/>Nice move, VA."<BR/><BR/>Not exactly. Its true Arlington & Alexandria were part of the original "ten miles square" plat of DC, however their retrocession back into VA was in 1846-47, well before the civil war and VA sucession from the union.<BR/><BR/>http://oha.alexandriava.gov/archaeology/decades/ar-decades-1840.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-53336237846794585842009-01-01T19:40:00.000-05:002009-01-01T19:40:00.000-05:00Re: InflationIf anyone here wants to see the ugly ...Re: Inflation<BR/><BR/>If anyone here wants to see the ugly side of real life hyper-inflation suffering please be so kind and vacation in ZIMBABWE for a week or two.<BR/><BR/>The poor Zimbabweans dream of bread being a mere $1,000 a loaf, since the price of bread is higher than that at the bakeries and supermarkets. Meanwhile the supermarkets and bakeries are out of bread since no one wants to sell bread at government price control prices (the price is less than the cost of ingredients.)<BR/><BR/>While you are in Zimbabwe tell us if the employers are raising the wages of their workers daily (something I doubt) and if the banks there have removed currency controls preventing depsitors from taking out more than a day's pay per day.<BR/><BR/>Please PLEASE report back to us concerning how things are going on in Zimbabwe and who is the winner in the hyper-inflation scenario, the renters, the home owners, both or neither.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-89046579301011630952009-01-01T15:17:00.000-05:002009-01-01T15:17:00.000-05:00Well, the Pentagon stands in what used to be Washi...Well, the Pentagon stands in what used to be Washington DC until Virginia ceded from the Union in an attempt to preserve slavery as a system of economics and as a way of life.<BR/><BR/>Nice move, VA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-38809587325181525312009-01-01T09:39:00.000-05:002009-01-01T09:39:00.000-05:00"Arlington will hold the Pentagon, Defense Communi..."Arlington will hold the Pentagon, Defense Communications Agency, and the National Science Foundation hostage."<BR/><BR/>Anyone who works or has worked for DoD knows that the Pentagon is not the center of DoD activity in the United States. Look into: USNORTHCOM and CENTCOM for starters. Where are they located? <BR/><BR/>DCA, DISA, and others are all relocating Ft. Meade in Maryland by 2011. <BR/><BR/>NSF? That, you can keep. Knock yourself out. There is more important and relevant scientific activity in garages around the country now than there ever will be at NSF. Maybe Obama will change NSFs role dramtically. If not, who cares?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-54434517248152478062008-12-31T21:14:00.000-05:002008-12-31T21:14:00.000-05:00"What if they don't reopen the bridges? What becom..."What if they don't reopen the bridges? What becomes of Arlington then?"<BR/><BR/>Arlington will hold the Pentagon, Defense Communications Agency, and the National Science Foundation hostage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-57937387661218550002008-12-31T16:27:00.000-05:002008-12-31T16:27:00.000-05:00"That's another problem with anonymous posting.."Y..."That's another problem with anonymous posting.."<BR/><BR/>Yes, "Jack Russell" isn't anonymous and everything "Jack Russell" writes here is true.<BR/><BR/>By the way, my name is John and I own a substantial number of properties on Martha's Vineyard.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08155898875919467736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-32656559262301498922008-12-31T13:22:00.000-05:002008-12-31T13:22:00.000-05:00Oh, please. That's another problem with anonymous...Oh, please. That's another problem with anonymous posting...<BR/><BR/>And for the record, we have no mortgage on our house, and we have no debt, we don't live in Arlington, and I don't feel particularly anxious. Just telling you what I think we have in store for us.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07317858463978974538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-21069165752395838962008-12-31T13:04:00.000-05:002008-12-31T13:04:00.000-05:00"Back to flailing about ehh?"and "I wish you folks..."Back to flailing about ehh?"<BR/><BR/>and <BR/><BR/>"I wish you folks could use some sort of identity when posting here instead of just posting anonymously."<BR/><BR/>Were written by the same anxious Arlington mortgagee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-10818712824751130582008-12-31T13:03:00.000-05:002008-12-31T13:03:00.000-05:00"Back to flailing about ehh?"and "I wish you folks..."Back to flailing about ehh?"<BR/><BR/>and <BR/><BR/>"I wish you folks could use some sort of identity when posting here instead of just posting anonymously."<BR/><BR/>Were written by the same anxious Arlington mortgage-holder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-54025567370048419452008-12-31T12:52:00.000-05:002008-12-31T12:52:00.000-05:00I wish you folks could use some sort of identity w...I wish you folks could use some sort of identity when posting here instead of just posting anonymously. You don't have to use your real name or anything. Just pick name/url and make up something unique that nobody else is using. And you can change it any time you like, so it isn't like you are tied to it or anything.<BR/><BR/>I feel like I am in a room where everyone else is wearing a paper bag over their head, and it is hard to tell who is saying what.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07317858463978974538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-78335973904186809052008-12-31T12:23:00.000-05:002008-12-31T12:23:00.000-05:00Back to flailing about ehh?Back to flailing about ehh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-13494275038286449082008-12-31T11:52:00.000-05:002008-12-31T11:52:00.000-05:00"Merely that the homes could be sold for more than..."Merely that the homes could be sold for more than is owed on them, which eliminates one of the reasons that homes are going into foreclosure."<BR/><BR/>This is the epitome of stupidity. At least you tried to make it seem as if someone else was responsible for writing it. (but you failed)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-54759960721007954472008-12-31T11:45:00.000-05:002008-12-31T11:45:00.000-05:00"Collapse of the financial system is likely""Homeo..."Collapse of the financial system is likely"<BR/><BR/>"Homeowners will sell their homes and no longer be under water."<BR/><BR/>If the financial system is dead, how is anyone going to sell anything? You still don't get it. Banking and finance are dead, the government is propping up the citizenry by keeping them at subsistence level, and you are going to "sell" your house?<BR/><BR/>Home sales have already fallen off a cliff, and all are in agreement that everything is going to get worse from this point forward.<BR/><BR/>Yet you are clinging to this notion that you are somehow not "underwater" on your place in Arlington? And you post and cross-post in this thread and the one above, having an agreement with yourself under various personalities, to try to reassure yourself that you aren't screwed?<BR/><BR/>You're screwed worse than you know, because you're too stupid to understand where we're headed from here.<BR/><BR/>Good luck with not being "underwater" on your mortgage. Perhaps you should be more concerned with how Arlington isn't going to become a target for rioting Virginians? The government is already planning to block the Potomac river bridges next month to keep you out of DC. What if blocking those bridges to keep Virginians out becomes a regular occurance? What if they don't reopen the bridges? What becomes of Arlington then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-66103238178741750172008-12-31T10:51:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:51:00.000-05:00"Jack Russell saidIn my view, high inflation would..."Jack Russell said<BR/><BR/>In my view, high inflation would essentially mean that an underwater homeowner would no longer be underwater. Nobody claimed that homeowners would be made rich by this. Merely that the homes could be sold for more than is owed on them, which eliminates one of the reasons that homes are going into foreclosure."<BR/><BR/>YES - God bless you Jack Russel - you "get it".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-59448094740905223772008-12-31T10:49:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:49:00.000-05:00"Another premise of your argument is that you owe ..."Another premise of your argument is that you owe $400,000 on a house, yet the future value of the house will be a few million (multiples of $1,000,000) because of rampant inflation. Possibly."<BR/><BR/>THERE IT IS - THATS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR A MERE ADMISSION THAT IF BREAD WAS $1,000 EACH AND EVERY SINGLE UNDERWATER HOMEOWNER WOULD NO LONGER BE UNDERWATER.<BR/><BR/>See how much easier that could have been had you admitted you were wrong when you said<BR/><BR/>"That doesn't work because if dollars are devalued that much, it will cost $1,000 for a loaf of bread."<BR/><BR/>Next time out just recant early and save yourself all the hassle!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-86180969420839787032008-12-31T10:43:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:43:00.000-05:00Well nobody is really going to do well in the comi...Well nobody is really going to do well in the coming storm, but some people are going to do better than others..<BR/><BR/>In my view, high inflation would essentially mean that an underwater homeowner would no longer be underwater. Nobody claimed that homeowners would be made rich by this. Merely that the homes could be sold for more than is owed on them, which eliminates one of the reasons that homes are going into foreclosure.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07317858463978974538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-4526977203891916852008-12-31T10:19:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:19:00.000-05:00"homeowner is bailed out."By the way, I'm a long-t..."homeowner is bailed out."<BR/><BR/>By the way, I'm a long-time howmeowner and I don't think homeowners are going to fair any better in the coming storm.<BR/><BR/>Another premise of your argument is that you owe $400,000 on a house, yet the future value of the house will be a few million (multiples of $1,000,000) because of rampant inflation. Possibly.<BR/><BR/>But what you fail to grasp is that if you sell the house for $1,000,000 and "make" $600,000 in the process... what is that $600,000 going to buy you? Six hundred (600) loaves of bread. That's all you get when inflation and unemployment run rampant simultaneously.<BR/><BR/>I suppose you could load the bread into your mini-van take a drive on the deserted highways and byways of Duhmerhica?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-87799284279020951542008-12-31T10:13:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:13:00.000-05:00"a complete collapse of the financial system is li...<I>"a complete collapse of the financial system is likely"</I><BR/><BR/>The basis of your argument is that people will work for pay, and people will bank or save the money they earn. You also assume that employers will withdraw money from bank accounts or savings to pay employees.<BR/><BR/>Then you say "a complete collapse of the financial system is likely."<BR/><BR/>Yet you're too dense to see that these two pillars of your argument are mutually exclusive. <BR/><BR/>When money has no value, people won't "work" for money. Bread will be handed out for free by the government, and the production cost of a loaf of bread very well could exceed $1000. (the cost of which is borne entirely by the government.) Get it yet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-16474136277526664212008-12-31T10:03:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:03:00.000-05:00Actually I will think it through for you. Assume ...Actually I will think it through for you. Assume the basic conditions of life cost 1,000 and everyone is unemployed. <BR/><BR/>If you are unemployed, you may become a day laborer, or do a task for someone in exchange for $$$. Now if a loaf of bread will cost $1,000, what price will you set for your labor maybe $5,000 a day. The employer will gladly pay you that because if there is inflation, by definition there is gobs and gobs of worthless money circulating through the economic system. <BR/><BR/>Further, say you own a house you bought in 2005 before the hyperinflation. You owe $400K (worth only 300K), and you pay $2,500 a month on it. Thanks to the massive inflaiton, you can now pay your fixed monthly mortgage payment in a day. Note, you still struggle to pay the utility bill which is 5,000 a month, and the taxes which are 5,000 a month, but at least the note payment is not an issue.<BR/><BR/>Further, lets say you decide to sell the house. There is some other guy out there who has some skill and gets say 20 odd jobs at 10,000 a day (200K a month). Maybe since he is the new fat cat in this mad max society, he has socked away 50K a month for the last year (i.e. he has 600K in worthless cash on hand). He is tired of paying rent at 30,000 a month so he wants to buy your place. Whats he gonna pay for it?<BR/><BR/>Well we dont know for sure, but it will be some price MORE than 400K, and THATS THE WHOLE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE!!!!!<BR/><BR/>Remember, this whole thing started based on this exchange:<BR/><BR/>"I fully expect that they will helicopter in money until the debt has been devalued so much that the debtors are no longer under water."<BR/><BR/>That doesn't work because if dollars are devalued that much, it will cost $1,000 for a loaf of bread."<BR/><BR/>So you were wrong when you said it "doesnt work". It absolutely does work, albeit with severe social consequences. War with a creditor nation is possible, massive unemployment is likely, civil strife likely, a complete collapse of the financial system is likely, yet desipte all that the one ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY is that if bread cost $1,000 each and every single underwater homeowner is bailed out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-49954230658444540812008-12-31T09:37:00.000-05:002008-12-31T09:37:00.000-05:00Bread cannot cost 1,000 if no one has the abilitit...Bread cannot cost 1,000 if no one has the abilitity to pay for it. <BR/> <BR/>Actually, if it cost 1,000 to produce, and no one had the money to pay for it, we would have a market failure supply would not intersect with demand. <BR/><BR/>In this case, there would need to be a substitute good since no one can afford bread. Rice, corn, whatever. I suspect though, that under your scenario where the prices of everything (except homes belonging to underwater homeowners) rose, rice and corn would cost 700, 800, etc.<BR/><BR/>But then again, if no one has the money to pay for that either, then what? We are back at square one again. THINK IT THROUGH...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-56394456274897515072008-12-31T06:51:00.000-05:002008-12-31T06:51:00.000-05:00They would make the same if bread was $1000. Someo...They would make the same if bread was $1000. Someone without a job, STILL makes nothing per hour, even if bread is $2000 per loaf.<BR/><BR/>There no more flailing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-8176906317202881102008-12-30T18:55:00.000-05:002008-12-30T18:55:00.000-05:00If bread costs $1,000, how much money do people HA...If bread costs $1,000, how much money do people HAVE in order to pay for it?<BR/><BR/>If they HAVE enough to support $1,000 bread prices, what will be the prices of oil, gold, housing, etc?<BR/><BR/>Flail flail flail away my friend!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13164186.post-24831715228026925402008-12-30T18:37:00.000-05:002008-12-30T18:37:00.000-05:00"If bread costs $1,000, how much money do people H..."If bread costs $1,000, how much money do people HAVE in order to pay for it?"<BR/><BR/>You're not getting it.<BR/><BR/>Why were bread lines prevalent in the 1920s and 1930s? Why did millions of people line up and stand there just to get a cup of thin soup and a slice of stale bread?<BR/><BR/>How much money did people HAVE in the biggest economic downturn prior to this year?<BR/><BR/>(Did you get that? In 2008, we are on the same order of magnitude as 1938)<BR/><BR/>I get the distinct impression that you are fucked in terms of your personal financial situation. Good luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com