Seven lockboxes on one of the gates of there cently built Silverton Condominiums in downtown Silver Spring, MD. Picture was taken on Feb 7th 2007. Silver Spring, MD is an inner suburb of Washington, DC. There has been a huge increase in the number of condo units in downtown silver spring in the past few years. More condo units are under various stages of construction
Silverton Condos (from the northwest side)
Posts
you didn't include their awesome views of the next door apartment building and the red line and MARC trains! you are so biased, you must be a flipper!
ReplyDeletehahaha...You also didn't include a description of the neighborhood....Such a luxury to live around there! And right on Georgia Ave, too! It'll be a dream driving to work from the condos during rush hour!
ReplyDeletePerhaps I'm missing something obvious (it wouldn't be the first time). What's the significance of the picture? Do Silverton residents have to unlock seven locks to get into the condo? Is the Silverton in so dangerous a neighborhood that the condos need lots of locks to prevent burglars from entering? What gives?
ReplyDeleteActually, judging from the outside, and living in the hood there myself, they don't look too bad (except for the tiny little jailhouse-style balconies that seem to be the rage these days).
ReplyDeleteI might pay as much as 140K for a new two bedroom/two bath there, if they are in really good condition, really large, and I get good value for a low condo fee.
A Redskins fan
http://www.gazette.net/stories/020707/rocknew221734_32320.shtml
ReplyDeleteHere is another condo community, adjacnet to a metro stop that cannot sell and has switched to rental.
They look like the usually tiny 600 square feet 1 bedroom cells blocks.
ReplyDeleteDude, Silver Spring is an INNER suburb of Washington? Not! Anything outside the beltway in Washington is closer to Kansas. OMG! Silver Spring is like Mars!
ReplyDelete"Dude, Silver Spring is an INNER suburb of Washington? Not! Anything outside the beltway in Washington is closer to Kansas. OMG! Silver Spring is like Mars!"
ReplyDeleteI think you're being sarcastic, but in case you're not, Silver Spring is inside the Beltway (at least, these condos certainly are). For me, it would take about 5-10 minutes to walk from those condos to the DC line.
Like I said, they don't look too bad. I might even be convinced to pay 140k for a large, well-built two bedroom with a low condo fee and great maintenance.
A Redskins fan
"Like I said, they don't look too bad. I might even be convinced to pay 140k for a large, well-built two bedroom with a low condo fee and great maintenance."
ReplyDeleteLook, Redskins, I'm not a raving housinghead nutjob like Lance, so I'm hoping you'll hear this: Outside a nuclear attack in DC or circa-1981 interest rates, ain't no freakin' way you're seeing prices as low as $140K for condos like that. Unless maybe rents in that area for 2-bedrooms are $700. But they aren't.
Look, people, just because Lance is stupid in one direction, don't you all go off being stupid in the other.
Keith said...
ReplyDelete“Outside a nuclear attack in DC or circa-1981 interest rates, ain't no freakin' way you're seeing prices as low as $140K for condos like that. Unless maybe rents in that area for 2-bedrooms are $700. But they aren't.”
And Redskins did not say that they would fall as low as $140K. He said:
“I might even be convinced to pay 140k for a large, well-built two bedroom with a low condo fee and great maintenance.”
He has just placed a value on what those condos would be worth to him. Nothing more, nothing less. He may be able to afford full asking price for those condos but chooses not to purchase at that price.
"He has just placed a value on what those condos would be worth to him. Nothing more, nothing less. He may be able to afford full asking price for those condos but chooses not to purchase at that price."
ReplyDeleteIf, at today's interest rates, somebody would not be willing to pay $150K for condos whose hedonic equivalents rent at $1300, then that person is making a stupid decision.
Keith said:
ReplyDelete"If, at today's interest rates, somebody would not be willing to pay $150K for condos whose hedonic equivalents rent at $1300, then that person is making a stupid decision."
Keith, you are providing the classic example of a BH confusing a housing expense with an investment decision. Redskins doesn't want to spend more tha $140,000 for that unit as a place to live ... period. He's not looking for a financial return on his housing expense (which is a good thing) and he's certainly not caring what the monthly payments/interest rate and other mitigating factors are. In his mind, he might consider signing a contract on that apartment as a place to live if the bottom line figure was $140,000 ... You've provided us the classic example of BHs not being able to make a good housing expense decision because they are confusing housing expense with investment returns. Do you do likewise with your car payment? I mean, before you bought the car, did you workout how much profit you were going to make when you sold it 10 years down the road? ... Or did you instead evaluate if it fit your needs and your budget? ... as one does with expenses ...
Keith said...
ReplyDelete“If, at today's interest rates, somebody would not be willing to pay $150K for condos whose hedonic equivalents rent at $1300, then that person is making a stupid decision.”
I’m confused Keith. Are those condos going for $150K? If so, I think one might be able to talk them down to the $140K that Redskin proposed, and that might qualify for a ball park figure on Redskins price. However for sake of argument, to me those condos are worth exactly zero dollars.
LOL. Keith, if they come down to 150, maybe I'll split the difference.
ReplyDeleteThey are probably selling for nowhere near 150. Now for me, they are indeed worth 140... at best. As robertore said, I am not making a prediction of where they will be, but rather what they are worth to me.
I have not forgotten that
(a) we are talking about a condo here, in an area with median income much below the Montgomery County median household income of 90K or so.
(b) if history is any guide, the DC area has severe recessions that can whack property prices.
(c) I am pessimistic about Montgomery County's future quality of life, though Silver Spring is quite nice right now.
So it's worth 140 to me. But it's really an academic question, because I'm sure the sellers have pulled some multiple of that out of their backsides and are offering it at that much higher, IMO much sillier price.
A Redskins fan
Lance said...
ReplyDelete“Do you do likewise with your car payment? I mean, before you bought the car, did you workout how much profit you were going to make when you sold it 10 years down the road? ... Or did you instead evaluate if it fit your needs and your budget? ... as one does with expenses ...”
Funny how some folks will haggle with a car salesman, then walk up and pay asking price on a home.
Lance said...
ReplyDelete“Keith, you are providing the classic example of a BH confusing a housing expense with an investment decision. Redskins doesn't want to spend more tha $140,000 for that unit as a place to live ... period. He's not looking for a financial return on his housing expense (which is a good thing) and he's certainly not caring what the monthly payments/interest rate and other mitigating factors are. In his mind, he might consider signing a contract on that apartment as a place to live if the bottom line figure was $140,000 ...”
And that’s the value he has placed on the house. Whether he’s buying for investment purposes or buying a home. The “market” has spoken (in this case Redskin), and the value is $140K. We/Redskin know(s) what the interest rates are, and given that, the price is still $140K.
Are you going to purchase something that’s overvalued in your own eyes just to say that you’ve purchased something? Heck “Lance”, if that’s the case, I’ve got an acre of land in the middle of nowhere that I’ll sell you for a cool $10 Million. Deal?
Lance, thank you for showing us all why you're so confused. In the past, you yourself have claimed that people should buy to save money on rising rents. But that in itself is an investment decision (a return of future rent savings) based on a forecast (expected rising rents). The decision to buy a house is a financial one. If you don't do the math involved in treating it as an investment, you simply increase your chances of making a bad financial decision on housing, such as buying at the peak in 2005...
ReplyDeleteAs for the car, buying a car (even though it's a depreciating asset) was the the most money-and-time-cost efficient way to go to the places I wanted to go.
If somebody wants to buy housing at its peak and lose money because they love owning a house so much in DC during 2005-2007, I find it very foolish, but then that's their business.
Conversely, if somebody wants to pass up an opportunity to buy a low-priced condo (our theoretical $150,000 condo in Silver Spring) to live in an area they enjoy at a much lower price, and have a highly appreciating asset to boot, I find that very foolish, but it's their business, too.
Robert said:
ReplyDelete"The “market” has spoken (in this case Redskin),"
Robert, this is hilarious! So, you think Redskin can be "the market"? It sounds like you don't have a clue what a "market" is .... Even your fellow BHs surely know better than that? Any BHer willing to put their rep on the line explaining why Redskin would be "the market" and singlehandily define "market" price?
Keith said:
ReplyDelete"In the past, you yourself have claimed that people should buy to save money on rising rents. But that in itself is an investment decision (a return of future rent savings)"
No ... not at all. That is called minimizing your expenses... PERIOD. You don't understand why? I had high hopes for you ... And you've just dashed them.
Keith,
ReplyDeleteWhile your arguments are sound, your assumptions are not. For example, assuming that people who bought who in 2005 - 2007 did so at a loss. Anyone who bought in DC in the beginning of 2005 had a 24%+ gain by the end of the year .. and with prices falling 0.65% a year, the downturn would have to continue into the next century for that one year's worth of appreciation to be negated. You are also not capable of differentiating between an expense and investment. You almost had it with the car. Yes, it is cost efficient ... and thus lowers your expenses ... It does nothing for you investmentwise. Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of an investment? An investment is where you have a return on your money. You don't get to use your money while it is invested .. no, not even as an "in-lieu-of-rent" use, and the aim is to make it grow while it is not being used. An expense is where you get a real benefit from something AND PAY for that benefit. E.g., paying either rent or a mortgage or cash up front or whenever is an expense. you get a place to live out of it ... and in the case of an owned property you get other things such as increased social standing in your community and a "locked in" montly expense cost. For an expense, you get what you pay for. With an investment you can't know ahead of time what you will get. When you have a housing expense you know what you are getting in terms of living there. If you have an investment expense with a house as you are viewing it, you have no idea what you are getting 'cause you don't know what you'll be selling if for and your objective sadly isn't to get a place to live and everything that comes with that but instead a place to make money. Like most Bubbleheads, you are a wanna be flipper who will never have a real home to live in because you have confused the concept of having a home with buying investment property. You have merged the two trying to "have it all" and in the end will have "nothing" ... 'cause you can't have your cake and eat it too as you are attempting to do. A home is an expense. Period. The minute you make it otherwise, you've stopped having a home. It is a place to hang your hat. Period. The stabiity and social status that comes with owning a home can't happen when you are willing to sell it to the highest bidder because you simply view it as "an investment". For your longterm good, I hope you make a real attempt at understanding what I have just said. If that is possible. If you can realize that money is an ends to a mean and not vice versa.
Lance, you are unintentionally hilarious.
ReplyDelete"For example, assuming that people who bought who in 2005 - 2007 did so at a loss. Anyone who bought in DC in the beginning of 2005 had a 24%+ gain by the end of the year."
Lance, I can show you the people trying to sell for less than they bought in 2005. Just cross-index Zip realty listings with assessment records on the web, which show date of sale and purchase price, and you can find people who bought in 2005 begging to lose "only" $80,000 today.
"You are also not capable of differentiating between an expense and investment."
This shows how utterly unqualified you are to give anyone any sort of financial advice. If I make a decision to pay money today to save on future expenses, that flow of future expense savings should be evaluated as a return on investment, and judged as such.
"When you have a housing expense you know what you are getting in terms of living there."
That's also true of rent. I know what I'm getting. The decision to own instead of rent is then a financial one. You are paying for a flow of future rent savings, and that future savings is the return on your investment. That return depends on your expectation of future rents.
"and in the case of an owned property you get other things such as increased social standing in your community"
Yes, Lance, we already knew you were on here because you overpayed for a house to boost your fragile ego, but thanks for making it official.
"and a "locked in" montly expense cost"
Yes, and the difference between that locked-in cost and the rent you'd have to pay in the future is the return on your investment. If you also want to claim some sort of insurance-like benefit because you've reduced the variability of your future housing costs, fine, but anybody could achieve that benefit by renting and owning REITs.
"A home is an expense. Period. "
No, rent is an expense. The decision to buy instead of rent is an investment decision. Your failure to understand that is why you made poor decisions. You yourself have more or less admitted that your own needs to achieve self-esteem through objects drove your decision to buy a house in 2005. And you are someone who lets their emotional insecurities drive their finanacial decisions, which is why you come on here and scream and cry at people. Secure people who are happy with their decisions don't act like you.
Look, if you are glad that you overpayed for a home beause it made you feel important, then I'm very happy for you.
I'm even happier for myself, that I'm comfortable enough with myself to make rational financial decisions, rather than purchase things to make up for some emotional hole.
I went to the open house at the Silverton on Sun 2007 Jan 28. There are definitely more than just 7 units for sale in this building. I saw 13 different units:
ReplyDelete1BR, #206, 757, $329900, $247/mo
1BR, #111, 753, $349900, $247/mo
1BR, #247**, 774, $346900, $247/mo
1BR, #344**, 717, $334900, $247/mo
1BR, #139**, 774, $356900, $247/mo
1BR, #145**, 850, $359900, $247/mo
1BR+Loft, #426, 863, $429900, $289/mo
1BR+Loft, #423, 863, $429900, $289/mo
1BR+Den, #350**, 967, $414900, $325/mo
1BR+Den, #342**, 960, $414900, $325/mo
2BR, #440**, 1158, $476900, $361/mo
2BR, #251**, 1170, $481900, $361/mo
2BR, #451**, 1170, $499900, $361/mo
** These units were not in the main Silverton building, they were in the Canada Dry building. The Canada Dry building smelled like some sort of pungent wood and was generally not as nice as the main Silverton building.
I find these prices very expensive for downtown silver spring. I have seen condos in Chevy Chase MD at the Friendship Heights metro for similar prices.
For the 1BR unit 206, the monthly payment on a 30 yr mortgage is about $2000 and the HOA fees of $247 and monthly property taxes roughly offset the mortgage tax deduction. I can rent a 1BR with 1 parking spot in DTSS for about 2/3 of that.
Here are some demographics about me: mid 20s, dual income in the $125-150k/year range.
-pastwatch
Lance said...
ReplyDelete“Robert, this is hilarious! So, you think Redskin can be "the market"? It sounds like you don't have a clue what a "market" is .... Even your fellow BHs surely know better than that? Any BHer willing to put their rep on the line explaining why Redskin would be "the market" and singlehandily define "market" price?
Ha! “Lance” good one. So, “Lance” you are the market? The sellers are the market? Who is the market “Lance”?
I would define the market as those in search of a home to purchase, but you “Lance” have another idea? Love to hear that one.
Lance said...
ReplyDelete“You almost had it with the car. Yes, it is cost efficient ... and thus lowers your expenses ... It does nothing for you investmentwise.”
But “Lance” you missed:
Keith said...
“As for the car, buying a car (even though it's a depreciating asset) was the most money-and-time-cost efficient way to go to the places I wanted to go.”
Time is the most valuable asset in this and most scenarios. Usually, any investment to gain more is wisely spent.
P.S.
ReplyDelete“Lance”, that one acre in the middle of nowhere is still up for grabs. And I tell you what, just for you (even though I already have multiple offers on it) I’ll drop the price to $9.5 Million. Better hurry though; you know they aren’t making any more of this stuff.
Lance said
ReplyDelete"A home is an expense. Period. The minute you make it otherwise, you've stopped having a home. It is a place to hang your hat. Period."
See sometimes lance has some smart ideas-but takes it and turns it around.
Yes a home is an expense, just like a car . . . but does that mean I go and buy the BMW for 60k or the Saturn for 20k--shoot maybe the Saturn for 20k is still really expensive, maybe I can ride my bike to work more exercise etc. Maybe I'll just ride my bike instead of buy a depreciating asset like a car. You see that's the thing. I think most people here actually do their expenses and realize that it's just tooo darn expensive to buy a house at this point when you can ride your bike. Sure it's nice to have the BMW, but if I save enough money it will happen. I don't have to have it NOW. Just like a house it will happen, but when I feel like I can comfortable afford it.
I've pointed out many times the expenses of owning a house and renting and right now it is more favorable to rent, no questions asked. At some point (hopefully sooner rather than later) it will make more sense to buy than to rent, until then I rent.
Silver Spring has Sprung. Deal with it
ReplyDeleteThanks for those prices, pastwatch.
ReplyDeleteThose are ridiculous. Silver Spring is a nice place to live right now, but I'll keep renting here.
A Redskins fan
I almost forgot!
ReplyDeleteWhen I went to the Silverton, they were offering the following incentives:
a) $10,000 closing costs
b) 1 year condo fees paid ($3000-5000 depending on the room)
c) Plasma TV included (I don't have the model number with me, but roughly $1000 value).
So they are offering $14,000-16,000 off the prices I listed above. Also, the second number I listed above was the number of square feet since I didn't say what it was.
-pastwatch
Some food for thought:
ReplyDeleteThe developers that brought you Silverton condominiums are also at work next door. The 16-story 440+unit building next door that was originally slated to be a condo building will now be apartments.
If the developer had enough common sense to realize that the DC condo market was on the road to nowhere and switched over before the building came out of the ground (and they realized this 6 months ago), I sure as hell hope these masses of "sophisticated" DINK DC buyers realize what's going on before they do something stupid.
I've been shopping for a condo in SS for a year. The prices for both new and used have come down some, but not that much. The downtown brand new condos are def. small, but new and I think that's what you're paying for. Prices will probably fall a bit more through the end of 07 and beg. of 08, or many units will go rental. There are plenty of jobs in the DC area with our many fed. gov't. agencies and vendors that support them.
ReplyDeleteI think some of the people with negative comments have not been inside the Silverton condos. Although some of the outside units have those "prison bar" balconies the inside units look into nice courtyards. After looking at many different places in Montgomery county for my mom and sister these turned out to be much larger than anything for the price. And the location is great if you want to be able to walk to restaurants, movies, shopping, and the metro.
ReplyDeleteLiving at the Silverton the past year has been an experience. Imagine trying to pour concrete between floors when the building has been already built. Very difficult I can imagine. That is why I find it hard to believe the builders did that sort of work. There may have differing regulations on how to build building rather than renovating an old one like this one. Whatever the reason may be not living on the top floor is extremely unpleasant. When someone above is normally walking it feels like the curtains are going to fall down. The walls between the units are paper thin (for example- can hear people normally conversing). Do not get me wrong the high ceilings and the newness of the building is very nice but if you happened to be somewhat sensitive to noise, this place is not quiet at all. Many who bought this property decided to rent out their condos for such reason. This can't be the a good solution since renting property depletes its value. Soon enough I predict this building will be full of foreclosures and turn into a slum rental building. Buyers beware!
ReplyDelete