Tuesday, December 07, 2010

Tea Party leader: Renters should have no right to vote

Judson Phillips, the president of Tea Party Nation, on renters' right to vote:
The Founding Fathers originally said they put certain restrictions on who got the right to vote. It wasn’t you were just a citizen and you automatically got to vote. Some of the restrictions, you know, you obviously would not think about today. But one of them was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community. If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested stake in the community than non-property owners do.
And many libertarians think the Tea Party is a pro-liberty movement?! It's not. It's an anti-libertarian, social conservative movement.

34 comments:

  1. The Tea Party remind me of a lighter version of the Nazi movement in the 1930s. Their mantra of stirring fear and putting one class of people against another has all of the trappings of Hitler. Don't let them burn books!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Let's bring Hitler into it!

    ReplyDelete
  3. First you take my red stapler, even though the spycams show I was the only grunt getting anything done. You've taken the only property I still owned after 3 years unemployment, and now that's how you justify taking away my vote?
    Now you've done it. Now you've gone too far... Now I'm burning perturbed.

    ReplyDelete
  4. The Tea Party has many overall valid points - primarily reduction of the nanny state and avoidance of becoming debt/tax slaves through smaller government.

    Of course, every party has their lunatic fringe, like this guy. Just like the Dems have Pelosi.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Milton "The Stapler" is so right. If, as a nation, we were better educated and more self-aware, this would the nail in the coffin for Tea Party movement. Since we're not, maybe it will just catalyze the moment when those who are too poor to buy a home and those who are too liberal/chic/city-dwelling realize that they have a common enemy and that snide commentary isn't enough defense.

    ReplyDelete
  6. nonpartisan said "Of course, every party has their lunatic fringe, like this guy. Just like the Dems have Pelosi."

    You're an idiot. First, this isn't the linatic fringe of the tea party. Its the lunatic center. Their crazy beliefs are central to the "Party" (which is really just party of the republican party anyway). Among many mainstream but complete crazy tea party ideas are 1)obama's not really a citizen,but an enemy of the state 2) we should repeal the 14th amendment 3) we should repeal the 17th amendment 4) we should repeal the 16th Amendment 5) Gay Marriage is the greatest threat to our country etc, etc, etc. The idea that Nancy Pelosi is the equivalent of this mess of morons and liars is just plain stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  7. You're an idiot.

    Ouch...that's gonna leave a mark. It's also correct...maybe that's why it will leave a mark.

    First, this isn't the linatic fringe of the tea party. Its the lunatic center. Their crazy beliefs are central to the "Party"

    Give that man a cigar. The TEA party - to the extent to which it is not just astroturf - is really just a replay of the JBS - at least in terms of it's intellectual heritage and traditions. And yes, that makes them the fringe.

    TEA partiers who reject that and believe themselves to be moderate "small government" types (rather than the re-branded reactionary Bush-II "base") need to give up the ruse and quit pretending they're something other than plain old GOP folks. Like it or not, we are all judged by the company we keep.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Forget the cigar. Give that man some TEA! ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  9. I do believe that if there is a proposition on the ballot which would result in property tax increase, renters should not vote.

    ReplyDelete
  10. and if there is a proposition on whether married people should get a tax increase, should the single not vote? On black people, no whites? We live in a democracy where we all participate in the decisions which govern the nation as a whole. don't like property taxes you can vote against them along with all the peasants or just don't own land. if you'd like a nation where "property owners" get to make their own rules perhaps you could join a feudalist society. But beware, you're very likely to be the serf and not the lord.

    ReplyDelete
  11. sticks and stones may...ah know the rest. No scar.

    The only politicians I find tolerable are Ron Paul and Chris Christie. Ron Paul is really the guy who got this tea party thing going - and I doubt he would spew the kind of cr&p as the schmuck on the above video, or the kind of pathetic trash that we hear from Palin. This fool in the fringe, not the center - problem is the liberal media has convinced a lot of you idiots that this is the tea party center.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Haha. Damn that Librul Media. They're always lying about the totally sane and reasonable right wing movement. Or in this case, since all the crazy stuff is openly espoused by them, the librul media had to get even more tricky and convince us idiots "that this is the tea party center." I mean, only an idiot would believe president of Tea Party Nation is part of the tea party center. Or that the "pathetic trash that we hear from Palin", one of the most popular figures among tea partiers, could possibly represent the tea party's views. Thank god nonpartisan is hear to show us all the light. GO TEA PARTY!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Nonpartisan, get your facts straight! Federal salaries make up 6% of the federal budget. I haven't heard any complaints from you about the billions of dollars not accounted for that went to private contractors in Iraq. It happened during a Republican administration. Not a peep from you. Typical moron.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Well here is your peep - the fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayer money by our government has got to be reigned in. The graft by these contractors and the political hands that feed them is heinous. The bailouts of the overleveraged from the underwater homeowner up through the banks has been disgusting. I am as I say - nonpartisan. THe tea party is on target with the smaller government principle, and the liberatarians with the focus on following our constitution. Ron Paul, in my opinion, is the most "right" of the politicos, and Christie is showing the guts to make the unpopular decisions that are fiscally responsible. Unfortunately, Paul's startup tea party has been hit from both sides - an attempted hijacking by the wackos, and the expected spin by the media.

    Fraud, waste, and abuse are part of the machinery that runs our system. Removing them would be very hard and threaten systemic collapse - so the unwashed massess are given their bread and circuses (in this case food stamps and Dancing with the Stsrs)so that there is no threat of a much needed revolution.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Nonpartisan is one of those Libertarian hypocrites who argues for limited government but when a flood or tornado hits his house he is in line with others with his hand out accepting that FEMA check. The government becomes your best friend during the time of need.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Actually, nonpartisan is a fiscally responsible individual with 7+ figures in savings and investments, who has set himself up in this fashion specifically because he refuses to accept and severely despises handouts. In keeping with this mantra, he is not foolish enough to pay bubble prices and only buys high quality items at the best price that he is willing to pay. He loathes freeloading and silver spoon arrogance. He is a great guy to hang out at a sports bar with.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I do believe that if there is a proposition on the ballot which would result in property tax increase, renters should not vote.

    Why not? They pay for those tax increases in their rent. You going to try to seriously tell me that Landlords eat carrying costs? Puhleez.

    Ron Paul did not get the TEA party moving. Crazy Dr. Paul was out there for years and years - the friendly crank uncle that everyone tolerated politely, and mostly ignored.

    Yes, after the naked hypocrisy of the DeLay-Bush years was so obvious even the denialists couldn't keep a straight face anymore, Paul got some traction in the GOP primaries.

    But the "TEA" party - the folks who are riled up by Sarah Palin and the Faux News Messaging Machine (Roger Ailes) are just the social-reactionary "base" re-branded.

    Chris Christie will set NJ back - we'll get another Lehman-like experiment in the disastrous results of ideological purity. Well, they did it to themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  18. @nonpartisan The graft by these contractors and the political hands that feed them is heinous.

    Great, I'm sure you support drastic Defense Dept. cuts - particularly to the privatized bureaucracy, right? You do support cutting that, right?

    Also, I'm positive you support more price controls on Medicare providers - the "private" doctors who feed at the largest single health-care trough there is - the government trough, right? You do support cutting or limiting what we pay those folks, right?

    I'm sick of this "Libertarian" bull-shyte that they are somehow completely independent and free of the government while feeding at the trough.

    There is one reason and one reason ONLY that the DeeCee CS index hasn't fallen (as others including myself think it should): it's supported by a steady flow from the public treasury. I've got news: whether you're a civil service or military employee or not - if you get the majority of your income stream for your "private business" from Uncle Suga, then you are part of the government.

    That includes the Lobbyists whose worth and paycheck is a percentage of what they extract from government in our "free market".

    ReplyDelete
  19. Owned a property in Renton, WA. My property taxes rose dramatically over my 18 years of ownership. Renters could vote on property tax increases just like the property owners yet could easily move if their rents went up. Hope the doctor's are enjoying the marble floors at the hospital and the sewer workers their beautiful water district building. I sold at the peak and left the state.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "Renters could vote on property tax increases just like the property owners yet could easily move if their rents went up."

    And that's another reason why there is a balance between renting and owning. Buying involves much more financial risk.

    ReplyDelete
  21. "Actually, nonpartisan is a fiscally responsible individual with 7+ figures in savings and investments....He loathes freeloading and silver spoon arrogance. He is a great guy to hang out at a sports bar with."

    Wow, someone who tells random people about how much money he has and explains what a great guy he is to hang out with. Sounds more like an arrogant, self-aggrandizing jerk who people hate hanging out with.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Very true Kahner! Good observation!

    ReplyDelete
  23. and his wife is very hot - all true!

    ReplyDelete
  24. All that, and yet he is still so retarded as to think DC case shiller will hit 100 because "all bellcurves complete"...

    ReplyDelete
  25. She's so hot that nonpartisan is hanging out at sports bars looking to have a drink with someone.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Let's put it backwards - do people who don't pay taxes owe any responsibily at all to the government for having the right to vote?

    Rights come with responsibility. This guy is saying that in his mind the right to vote comes with the responsibility of "paying taxes". Okay, you disagree with him. So state your opinion: what do you think is the responsibility a citizen has in return for having the right to vote? Any?

    Is the right to vote something that is given by the government, or is it a natural right that is given at a higher level?

    At least discuss the matter instead of name calling people who disagree. He's making an interesting point that will never happen, but it gives food for thought (which I thought political dialog was about, but you rather call people names). In theory 80% of the population can vote to pay no taxes and to stick everything on the other 20%. We're almost at the 50-50 point today.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Maybe we should just let people vote WITH money. The more you have, the more votes you get. That should lead to a fair and equitable society.

    Once again, if you want to live in a society where full citizenship and the related rights are based on wealth feel free to leave. In this country "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed".

    ReplyDelete
  28. The Tea Party movement was created by Karl Denninger for the central banker-controlled media to hijack the pro-Constitution movement of Ron Paul.

    Glen Beck in 2008 was extremely critical of Ron Paul, but now he pretends to be a leader of the movement. Palin is similar. All of this is a fabricated grassroots movement designed to turn people off to Libertarianism.

    They took the message and distorted it, and then the media attacked the fake leaders of the movement in order to erode any confidence in the co-opted movement.

    This has worked very well, indeed. most people have no clue this is going on. They still trust the paradigm the media hands them, because if the masses follow it, it must be true.

    Individual thought is dead.

    R.I.P.

    ReplyDelete
  29. The grass roots Tea Party is more libertarian than not.

    This guy is just spouting off.

    Everyone is on his or her little power trip to be the mouthpiece of the Tea Party, though.

    Read Instapundit every day if you don't think the Tea Party is libertarian enough for you.

    ReplyDelete
  30. A better argument to make is that people who pay no taxes should not be allowed to vote.

    The country has moved from an agrarian economy where land ownership connoted wealth. Many wealthy people choose to rent to relieve themselves from the burden of homeownership

    ReplyDelete
  31. Tea Party Prez should have been asked:

    Question 1: Do you own your home "free and clear?"

    Question 2:Does someone who "owns a home" worth $250,000 but has a $300,000 mortgage "own" their home?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous said:

    "I do believe that if there is a proposition on the ballot which would result in property tax increase, renters should not vote. "


    What if the renter has a lease which REQUIRES him to pay the property taxes? (as in "pay x rent plus actual property taxes")

    Does this renter get to vote?

    ReplyDelete
  33. kahner said:

    "And that's another reason why there is a balance between renting and owning. Buying involves much more financial risk. "


    I rent - buying a home simply is not an option for me - and from my perspective, I face much more risk by renting than I would face if I owned a home.

    When you rent, the market determines your housing cost, not you.

    Yes, renters can to some extent control their housing cost by downsizing, but I am already downsized to renting a room in a house in which five others live. (I did not know any of them when I moved in, and I rent only the room, so I have zero control over the living environment.)

    As a renter, I am literally at the mercy of the impersonal housing market; my rent can go through the roof at any time. (I don't have a lease.) Indeed, at one time, my rent went up five times in five years, and I had to move three times when I couldn't afford the higher rent.

    Homeowners, on the other hand, lock in their mortgage payment with a fixed-rate mortgage. At one point I was paying more to rent a studio apartment than my next door neighbor Bob was paying to own a 3BR house. If Bob had much more financial risk, I'd sign up for it in a heartbeat.b

    ReplyDelete
  34. Terry Pratt said...

    "When you rent, the market determines your housing cost, not you."

    Have you noticed the housing "market" in the last few years? That market was based on loose lending and toxic mortgages, not fundamentals...such as income. Ever hear of Rent/own ratios? Rentals are indicative of what local incomes can support. I know of no lenders offering loans for renters.

    "(I did not know any of them when I moved in, and I rent only the room, so I have zero control over the living environment.)"

    You have much more control over your living environment. You can simply walk out in a moments noticed.

    "As a renter, I am literally at the mercy of the impersonal housing market; my rent can go through the roof at any time. (I don't have a lease.) Indeed, at one time, my rent went up five times in five years, and I had to move three times when I couldn't afford the higher rent."

    Great example of the control you have over your living arrangements. Try that with a mortgage. (well I guess in this day and age you could not pay the mortgage for months and live rent free).

    I rented(and continue to rent) through the bubble. A couple years ago I noticed all the rentals coming on the market due to folks unable to sell and tried to negotiate a lower rent. Landlord said no....I moved to a newer home with a lower rent. If this Landlord wants to raise rent? Fine with me...there's two more homes down the block up for rent at a lower price point. Lose my job? Sucks yes, but I've got no mortgage to hold me in this town.

    "Homeowners, on the other hand, lock in their mortgage payment with a fixed-rate mortgage. At one point I was paying more to rent a studio apartment than my next door neighbor Bob was paying to own a 3BR house. If Bob had much more financial risk, I'd sign up for it in a heartbeat.b"

    Fixed rate mortgages did not get us in this mess. Negative amortized interest only adjustable rate mortgage and the ARM re-sets higher? Pay the mortgage. Lose your job? Pay the mortgage. Sick? Pay the mortgage.

    ReplyDelete