Friday, January 12, 2007

Lincoln Park Terrace Condos in DC

Lincoln Park Terrace Condos
From the 300's

Under Construction
Posted by David at 2:52 PM

25 comments:

  1. AnonymousJanuary 12, 2007 12:22 PM

    They seem alright. I couldn't find any prices though. That neighborhood is still fairly sketchy.

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  2. AnonymousJanuary 12, 2007 12:31 PM

    YAWWWNNN.

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  3. AnonymousJanuary 12, 2007 4:30 PM

    I love how they "adjusted" the scale on their map. The distance between Union Station and 9th St NW is twice the distance between Union and 11th St NE. Makes the place look next door to Union, which it ain't.

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  4. wannabuyJanuary 12, 2007 7:01 PM

    I like the look of this building. But what is the neighborhood like (Mojo notes "sketchy.") Also, what are the floor plans/prices?

    I'm very happy to see more and more housing completing. We did have a slight shortage a few years ago. :)

    Not that I'd recommend buying for a bit. ;)

    Neil

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  5. Dr Housing BubbleJanuary 14, 2007 11:24 AM

    We have the same thing going on in Los Angeles and Orange County. These new condo conversions from previous apartments are dropping prices like flies and pushing prices down. But then again we all new Compton was worth $450,000 right?

    Dr. Housing Bubble - How I Learned to Love SoCal and Forget the Bubble

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  6. AnonymousJanuary 14, 2007 1:24 PM

    I would move to a transitioning area if,
    1) it is well located. (remember Logan of 10 years ago). Lincoln is a good location, close to where would transition if its going to happen.
    2) Well priced (if my safety is in question, which means I stay holed up in my place or away from it, that's a big cost. Lincoln is not well priced for that boring box.
    3) the place needs to be more than a box (and that's what's being offered here). Another ugly box, and no rooftop space for the "penthouses".

    Moving to a transitioning area is a great move at if you sense that real estate is in a cyclical upturn: with the right attributes, your neighborhood could develop nicely. In a downturn, you may have to wait 20 years for changes to happen, which is much too long. Timing, in real estate, as in other things, is very important.

    With all the big condos being build east of 10th around Mass NW, I'll wait. There are so many being built and priced ridiculously that something will have to give (several claim they won't reduce prices to protect those who already have contracts at high prices.)

    OK on the neighborhood, wrong price, boring development. I'll pass.

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  7. AnonymousJanuary 15, 2007 5:44 PM

    1) People are moving into more transitional areas b/c the commute to MoCo, NoVa, etc. just doesn't allow for enough time to live. People want 2 hours fo their day back.
    2) As far as Lincoln, I think once Snyder builds the new Skins stadium and obtains surrounding developmental rights, the place will lose a good bit of it's so called sketchiness. But in any urban environment, there is going to be crime. While places like Logan seem to have evolved from transitional, check out a crime blotter. If you want urban -- you'll have to deal with the crime.
    Not that Herdon, Rockville, etc is without crime. I guess it just seems more shocking.

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  8. AnonymousJanuary 15, 2007 10:24 PM

    Lincoln Park does have one thing going for it - the park is beautiful. One of the nicest spots in DC. That alone makes the area a good bet to straighten out.

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  9. LanceJanuary 16, 2007 10:48 AM

    originaldcer said:
    "I guess my position/question is would you pay the same for Rockville, Reston, or Herndon as you would for Lincoln Park? I am still seeing homes that have similar prices as other areas with less crime and more ammenities."

    I think it really boils down to where people see a placing going "down the road". Yes, you might nowadays be paying the same for a place in Lincoln Park as you do in Rockville, Reston,and Wheaton, but will that be the case 10 or 20 years from now? With traffic ever-increasing, I can see a close-in place like Lincoln Park gaining in value because of its more central location. Conversely, some of the older suburbs are beginning to see increases in crime while places like Lincoln Park are seeing declines. (This could of course be directly related to the fact that increasing prices/rents in places like Lincoln Park are pushing people more apt to cause problems out to relatively cheaper places like the industrial sections of Rockville.) From a macro view, I believe that as the Washington metro area gains population, it grows in area ... The "safe" inner core that was once only G'town and upper NW and Arlington/Bethesda, etc, must get larger. The ring of lower-income areas housing the "service workers" that surrounds that core must get pushed out to places that were formally suburban ... Which in turn pushes the suburban areas out to areas that were once rural (the new ex-burbs) ... Cities are like biological entities ... like cells ... They grow in the same ways ... provided there is no "shock" to the system as there was in this area in the 60s with the riots and all. And because the shock of the 60s put this area behind where it should have been, I can see the "catch up" happening fairly quickly.

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  10. AnonymousJanuary 16, 2007 12:05 PM

    Lance said:
    "They grow in the same ways ... provided there is no "shock" to the system as there was in this area in the 60s with the riots and all. And because the shock of the 60s put this area behind where it should have been, I can see the "catch up" happening fairly quickly."

    The area will get better, but this is not a short term thing. Besides prices will drop before they go up, so why buy there now. If fairly quickly means 20 years, then yes. There is so so much condo construction being built. Madrigal, Sonata, CityVista, TenTen Mass, Dumont, The Metrople, Yale Lofts, etc. What it will really take is an excellent real estate cycle and/or reasonable prices now. But based on the condos being built now, wait and buy when the prices become reasonable.

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  11. AnonymousJanuary 16, 2007 3:05 PM

    "As to your point about pushing people in areas similar to Lincoln Park out.. This may be true in the case of some areas where public housing etc may exist. In other places, the "more apt to commit crime" people are owners..and I don't see them going anywhere. I live in a section of NE that is pretty diverse, it is a more residential section of DC. The original residents were not renters or living in the projects and are still there. Outside of the occassional death these folks have been in their houses well over 40-50 years. When an owner dies their children move in...little turnover occurs and no one is pushed out."


    This is exactly why the oft quoted "median income" to "average selling price" ratio is so meaninless in DC. What you described constitutes a very large segment of Washington that has nothing to do with the economy that most of us live in.

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  12. AnonymousJanuary 16, 2007 8:57 PM

    Certain sections of NE haven't done what the Licoln Park area has done, for better or worse, the word is "gentrification"...and it means more sophisticated people living where less sophisticated people used to live, and this has a correlation with the amount of crime, but not a causation -- crime may be socio-economic, but not everyone leaves an area -- so I don't think you can classify everyone into "people stay --crime stays" classes. I have no proof, but I bet people willing to committ crime (ie, for money) are more willing to sell their house for a marginal profit, leading to gentrification. And from someone who lives in the RE market, a whole lot of those people are taking new found $$ and moving to other places outside this region. Think warmer climates and lower property values.

    Lincoln Park may have crime, and you may have to buy a "box" to live in, but it's a different type of box. One w/out airbags, seatbelts, and a horn. So while Rockville, Wheaton, Herdon may have less crime...there are a lot of parents getting home from work earlier in Lincoln Park, U Street, Kalorama, Chinatown, etc...and those kids have supervision..which leads to less crime. And is part of the whole reason our GOv't encourqages home ownership -- people care about neighborhoods, kids, and invest in a way of life.

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  13. AnonymousJanuary 17, 2007 10:23 AM

    Anonymous 12:05 said:
    "Certain sections of NE haven't done what the Licoln Park area has done, for better or worse, the word is "gentrification"...and it means more sophisticated people living where less sophisticated people used to live..."

    "Gentrification" is a word with nasty connotations. "Revitalization" is better and it what is used generally unless there is talk of (sophisticated?) whites pushing out (less sophiticated?) non-whites, which is why the word has gained the nasty racial connotation. Sophisticated? Richer? or Obnoxious-er?

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  14. ihateyuppiesJanuary 17, 2007 10:31 AM

    Crime numbers for gentrifying areas like Columbia Heights and Logan Circles are stable. In other words, more yuppies moving into the area isn't make the neighborhood that much safer. If anything, criminals will be motivated to pay visits to Columbia Heights in search of a yuppie's wallet or a yuppie's car. Wealth attracts crime, especially in a community that borders lower economic class districts.

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  15. LanceJanuary 17, 2007 9:48 PM

    Anon 7:23 said:
    ""Gentrification" is a word with nasty connotations. "Revitalization" is better and it what is used generally unless there is talk of (sophisticated?) whites pushing out (less sophiticated?) non-whites, which is why the word has gained the nasty racial connotation. Sophisticated? Richer? or Obnoxious-er?"

    Nah ... gentrification is a color-blind word. Being gentry does not require being white. Anyone can be a "gentleman" (and "lady") and bring one's good upbringing with them ... which is all "gentrification" means.

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  16. AnonymousJanuary 18, 2007 9:35 AM

    Lance said:
    connotation...
    "Nah ... gentrification is a color-blind word. Being gentry does not require being white. Anyone can be a "gentleman" (and "lady") and bring one's good upbringing with them ... which is all "gentrification" means."

    Lance, so you also don't understand the word "connotation". Go look it up and respond with facts and data. Oh, sorry, you don't do that.

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  17. LanceJanuary 18, 2007 8:40 PM

    Anon 6:35,

    I know the meaning of the word connotation, and I know that anyone who reads a connotation into the term gentrification is very likely to be racist because it is they making a color or ethnicity association with the word gentrification that just isn't there for the rest of us. For most of us it simply means that a neighborhood has changed such that it is self-determinant ... No absentee landlords, no empty store-fronts, no criminals keeping the honest people off the streets. It is a neighborhood that has pride of ownership and is in control of its own destiny ... providing the people living there "Pride of Ownership". 'Course I guess that last part is an unknown to most bubbleheads reading this ...

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  18. AnonymousJanuary 18, 2007 10:34 PM

    The area this is in is fine. The closer to H street, the worse it gets, especially that far down on H. I rent in this area, near 3rd and I NE. H st is transitional still, but Capitol Hill is solid. Of course, not worth anywhere near what they're asking for in terms of price

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  19. AnonymousJanuary 19, 2007 10:57 AM

    Lance said
    "I know that anyone who reads a connotation into the term gentrification is very likely to be racist because it is they making a color or ethnicity association with the word gentrification that just isn't there for the rest of us."

    L O L! Examination of common usage will give you your answer.

    Besides, your previous answer was flaw all round: It attempted to address the meaning of the word and not the connotation.

    Lance said: "For most of us it simply means that a neighborhood has changed such that it is self-determinant ... No absentee landlords, no empty store-fronts, no criminals keeping the honest people off the streets. It is a neighborhood that has pride of ownership and is in control of its own destiny ... providing the people living there "Pride of Ownership"."

    Q: Are the absentee landlords gentry depending on where they live?

    And "gentry" has its own connotations, also not particularly sweet: 1) People of gentle birth, good breeding or high social position. 2) The English upper middle classes...

    Since when does not having absentee landlords, empty storefronts and criminals make gentry? The Amish country gentry? The assisted living community gentry?

    LOL!

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  20. AnonymousJanuary 22, 2007 12:29 PM

    D and 13th NE isn't a bad area. The homes surrounding Lincoln Park, particularly just to the north of it are already pretty well gentrified or revitalized or what have you. it's probably a 15 minute walk to Union Station or Eastern Market metros. I live in the area and never have felt unsafe.
    OTOH, north of H and H st itself is a whole different story. What's fascinating about DC is how revitalization is almost a block to block thing.

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  21. AnonymousJanuary 25, 2007 5:22 PM

    Regarding the comments about the condos being seemingly "overpriced" compared to more "established" neighborhoods.

    When you buy new construction -- you get just that NEW construction. When you compare prices to square footage in more established neighborhoods, one can forget that those neighborhoods took time to become "established." So you might buy 100 year old house w/ 100 year old plumbing, electric, central air(?), etc. You might be buying more "established" work. The guts of new construction and the technology incoporated into today's building adds to the value of a place b/c there is less likihood that the internal guts of the place will need replacement/repair. Not all square footage is the same.

    Just something to consider.

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  22. AnonymousJanuary 25, 2007 10:16 PM

    I agree with anon above at 9:29am. I've been living a block from the lincoln park towers for a few years (a few in SE too) and i feel completely safe here. I actually think they're a noisy monstrosity and will obliterate what is a perfectly lovely parking and residential situation. I think they're overpriced and completely misplaced in terms of style/aesthetics. I like a neighborhood that is a little rough around the edges and doesn't look like a shiny new starbucks. Although, if that's your thing, I think eventually they'll be a good investment b/c the H street corridor is blowing up, and there's some really fantastic new bars and clubs open. In any case, good luck in the home hunt!

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  23. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2007 5:27 AM

    Not all new construction is really better. Especially when there has been shortages of copper and other things that go into that new construction. I think that 10 Y.O. PROVEN construction would be just as good as new.

    As for "Gentrification": LANCE: It would really help your argument if you just said "Excuse Me. I didn't mean it that way." and moved on. Instead you lost the debate and look like a racist to boot, but maybe that is what you were aiming for?

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  24. AnonymousJanuary 29, 2007 6:00 PM

    I agree -- 10 year old construction might be just fine. So might 100 year old construction. New construction might be faulty. But odds are that new construction will be better. And even after construction is complete, the builder cannot control the next owner/tenant. People ignore leaky pipes, don't change air filters (me included for that one), and generally allow for passive deterioration.

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  25. AnonymousNovember 24, 2009 6:51 PM

    Do not buy in this building. I was strongly considering purchasing a unit. Thankfully, I rented here for one year in order to make a decision. Moving out at the expiration of my lease was a very happy moment!!!

    Here are several reasons not to make a purchase in this property:

    1. The homeowners' association (HOA) is struggling. They will nickel and dime owners when possible. As a renter, they continually changed policies to ensure that the renters were treated like second-class citizens.

    2. The HOA president is a complete bitch.

    3. At the time I lived here, approximately 75% of the building was rented. Only 25% of the properties were sold. Not a sound investment!

    4. Instead of a professional message board, the building continued to post "nasty gram" messages in the elevators. These addressed everything from “charging for use of the public grill on the deck” to “questioning the cleanliness of the individual who did not pick-up their dog poop”.

    5. The units are overpriced for the market and for what the building entails.

    6. The condo fees are approximately $300 - $500. This is pretty expensive since there is no gym, etc.

    7. It is not close to the Metro. Based on advertisement, one might assume that this unit is located close to the metro or Union Station. Don't be fooled. It is approximately 1+ miles to Union Station. The walk to Eastern Market is more like 10 blocks and takes about 15-20 minutes. The D6 bus route stops one block away from the building. However, the schedule is sporadic at best.

    8. Every year, the building holds an event on the roof for the 4th of July Fireworks. The HOA president decided to charge her friends one rate while charging others another.

    9. While living in the building, approximately 5 cars were vandalized in the secured parking area in September 2008.
    _____

    Finally....I was moving 7 small boxes on the last weekend in my unit to my vehicle in the garage. Six hours later, I receive an email stating that my entire security deposit was withheld based on the damages found to the door leading from the garage to the elevator. It was Sunday, and on an average, approximately 100 people might use this doorway. However, I was an easy target. THE BUILDING DOES NOT HAVE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS IN THE BASEMENT, SO THEY COULD NOT PROVE THIS DAMAGE WAS MY FAULT. Despite this fact, the landlord charged me with damage to the doorframe along with re-painting the entire vestibule lobby. This lobby had dozens of scratches from transit of bikes, groceries, etc. In the meantime, I knew several other tenants who also had threats to their security deposit based on several claims of the landlord/developer.

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