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Bubble Meter is a national housing bubble blog dedicated to tracking the continuing decline of the housing bubble throughout the USA. It is a long and slow decline. Housing prices were simply unsustainable. National housing bubble coverage. Please join in the discussion.
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The best way to get the housing market thriving again is to drop prices to the point where supply equals demand. Home sellers might not like it, but it's good for buyers and it's great for Realtors.
For Realtors, the best way to make more money is to sell houses quickly, and the best way to sell houses quickly is to convince the seller to drop the price.
For Realtors, the best way to make more money is to sell houses quickly, and the best way to sell houses quickly is to convince the seller to drop the price.
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Bubble Meter Archive
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2009
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August
(33)
- Home sales may dry up in December
- Has housing hit bottom?
- Housing has likely bottomed. New bubble forming?
- Case Shiller Price Index Up
- More bubbles to come
- Correcting two related housing bubble myths
- An economic recovery forecast
- Urban planners vs. "suburban sprawl"
- Existing home sales are up, but...
- 1 in 8 mortgage borrowers behind on their mortgage
- Ever wanted a house on the Chesapeake?
- Robert Shiller: "There could be another bubble. Ab...
- Quote of the day
- "Most of the country is about half-way there"
- Lawrence Yun Makes Another Inane Comment
- An interview with Karen Weaver
- Home price reductions
- Zillow COO's housing prediction
- Dow Jones: Home prices have not bottomed
- Foreclosures up 32% year-over-year
- Another major mortgage provider goes belly up
- Ask your landlord for lower rent
- Have home prices hit bottom?
- Freddie Mac: Housing recovery is only seasonal
- A creepy way to get a bargain on a house
- BubbleSphere Roundup
- The recession is ending; may be over
- 48% of homeowners with mortgages to be underwater ...
- July 2009 ADP employment report numbers
- Home rental scams
- DC area tiered house price indexes
- The Daily Show makes fun of Tim Geithner
- Back from vacation
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▼
August
(33)
Hey where's Partisan?
ReplyDeletePrices are going up bud!
Better buy more before they do!
Another year or two afterwards? That guy hasn't looked at enough housing bubble data. Prices often bottom many years after volume picks up.
ReplyDeleteRight here Nozzie - thinking about how DC area activity bottomed last year, and what that means for prices...
ReplyDeleteYou still feel confident about your DC area price predictions?
"Anon said....Another year or two afterwards? That guy hasn't looked at enough housing bubble data. Prices often bottom many years after volume picks up."
ReplyDeleteSure you mean "bottom" and not "recover"? Prices do seem to "bottom" within a year or so after volume increases. However, prices do not seem to "recover" for many years after volume picks up.
Yea, all I know is that Im not buying for at least 2-3 more years from now. Be it we are at the bottom or not, prices sure as hell arent going to go up. So where is the incentive for me to buy now?
ReplyDeletePartisan:
ReplyDeleteYou're probably the only idiot here that thinks prices have bottomed out. You're simply a debunker...and even if you show proof in your face, you'll say it's not true. So no point arguing with you.
If you want to show you really are the "man"...grow some balls...go and buy as many properties as you can RIGHT NOW. If you bought one a few years ago, buy another...and another. You better buy NOW before things get better.
I'm fully confident about my prediction...because I know you don't have the balls to put your money where your mouth is. I'm pretty sure that prediction is correct.
well, if you're getting a good price and declines are over then there are many incentives to buy. our tax code is full of nice little provisions to benefits homeowners. it all depends on how much you're paying in rent, how happy you are with your rental and how long you plan on staying in one place.
ReplyDeleteNoz, Do you actually read what people post? Partisan said that activity bottomed last year, not prices. They are 2 different things. Also I love who people tell others to "go and buy as many properties as you can", if you think they think the market has bottom as if they went out and bought all the properties they could have when the prices were low in the late 90's. Also just because someone thinks something is a good deal does not imply they should simply go out and buy it. I personally don't think the bottom has hit, but I do think there are never the less some good deals in some areas. I have been going back and forth on the idea of buying a couple of cheap properties and sitting on them to diversify my portfolio. The main reason I have not is because I did not want to have to worry about maintaining them until the market starts to recover again.
ReplyDeleteANON:
ReplyDeleteI suggest you read Partisan's other posts...from the past. If you can dig them up, good luck...the chicken-little posts most of the time as an ANON just like you...may be this even is you just trying to cover your ass while prices continue to decline.
Fact is Partisan/ANON thinks prices HAVE bottomed. You really should read his other posts first before you tell others to read his.
"Noz said...You're probably the only idiot here that thinks prices have bottomed out."
ReplyDeleteGee - you sure about that Nozzie? Seems to me there are thousands upon thousands of people who seem to agree with me on that - as per the futures chart on case shiller.
http://www.recharts.com/cme.html
See the 11th chart which is DC. I tend to agree with it and it says we bottom in Nov of this year at 160.4. We hit 165.9 two months ago, so technically we have another -3.3% to go before we hit bottom.
You want to make it interesting? OK, lets try this - make your prediction on where we will be for the november contract. If thats not the bottom, give me a number for the Feb 2010, May 2010, Aug 2010, Nov 2010?
Your original prediction on this blog (which I will gladly pull back up for you if necessary), said we get back to 2000-2001 prices. Even if we grant you inflation, it looks like 2000-2001 prices is a case shiller value of about 133-135.
So there it is nozzie, give me a prediction of what DC will be at in Nov 09, Feb 10, May 10, Aug 10 and Nov 10. Give me a value of each that gets us down to a bottom of 135 or less.
Anyone want to guess if he can give us a straight answer that involves numbers like (150, 145, etc) and doesnt include tangents or words like "idiot"?
Balls in your court noz.
you are both wrong. We will bottom at late 1990's prices. bell......shaped......curve
ReplyDeleteNon-Partisan:
ReplyDeleteI agree...I never said it's going to be a sharp price form.
Ahh nonpartisan, you are here too - excellent.
ReplyDeleteLate 1990s prices ehh? Granting inflation, that puts DC in the 110-115 range.
So same bet to you. We are at 169.5 right now. You say we get down to 115? Ok then lay it out for me, where are we in Nov 09, Feb 10, May 10, Aug 10, Nov 10. Numbers please???
partisan:
ReplyDeleteOh I'm sure....
A blip in the Case-Shiller data is what you are going by? LOL...good luck with that.
I've already told you where I think prices will go...you keep re-iterating my price beliefs so I won't repeat them here. I didn't give a claim of time though...did I. Don't add into the mix something that wasn't originally discussed to throw a "tangent" as you say.
Are you feeling the pressure? Is that why you are throwing in other crap now?
As I said.....put your money where your mouth is....trust those Case-Shiller guys...and those "thousands upon thousands" of people you claim agree with you...come on!!!
Go buy up as much as you can...after all..you're right and we're wrong. Come on partisan...grow some balls....the ball is DEFINITELY in your court.
Prove us wrong...put YOUR money on the line...all of it. Since you are so sure...you can't lose.
Anyone want to make a bet that partisan is full of crap and just a panzy?
Ahh nozzie your back. Its not a sharp price form - OK got it.
ReplyDeleteNow back to the numbers, where is DC gonna be in Nov 09, Feb 10, May 10, Aug 10, Nov 10? Numbers please?
Maybe thats not bottom for you. Maybe we bottom in 2011? Ok, then lay out values for Feb, May, Aug, & Nov 2011.
Surely you have some idea of how we get down to a value of 135. Give me some numbers so we can play along at home...
partisan:
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter when it gets there...it matters what price it gets to.
But alas...you answered my question...you don't have the balls. Stop dancing around the fire and changing the subject.
You clearly show you don't have the balls to put your money where your mouth is. It's as simple as that. Until you do so, all the BS and hot air you keep spouting isn't going to get you any brownie points.
I asked a simple question...and you completely avoided it...didn't even mention it.
Thanks for letting us know you're fuzzless.
"But alas...you answered my question...you don't have the balls. Stop dancing around the fire and changing the subject."
ReplyDeleteOK then point to you. Its true, I have no balls, im scared I might be wrong. So now that that is dispensed with, lets get back to the numbers please???
I don't told my price point...I never said the time and date...why are you changing the context of the argument?
ReplyDeleteBecause im quite confident you know we wont get to 135 so you are doing anything you can to duck the question of how we get there.
ReplyDeleteAgain, for the record, the market predicts the following values:
Aug 09 = 162.0
Nov 09 = 160.0 (Bottom)
Feb 10 = 162.0
May 10 = 163.0
Aug 10 = 167.0
Nov 10 = 160.0
May 11 = 165.0
Nov 11 = 192.0 (no way that stands)
May 12 = 163.4
Nov 12 = 163.4
So that puts us into 2013. At some point along this series, you seem to think we get to 135. Please take a shot at how we get there so we can all play along at home.
I also believe prices will eventually bottom out at early 2000 levels, adjusting for inflation of course. But trying to predict the shape of the decline, even supposing I'm right, would be a fool's errand. If pressed in 2008 I would have predicted that prices would drop more this year, but at the time I couldn't factor in the massive government intervention in the housing market (pushing interest rates down, tax rebates, foreclosure moratoriums, expansion of low down payment FHA loans, etc).
ReplyDeleteWould that make me wrong? Yes, I suppose, by a matter of degree as far as my prediction about this year is concerned. But as to my opinion that housing prices will return to early 2000 levels...well, the jury is still out on that. You see, these are two separate points, and the exact trajectory of price declines is not the real issue...to me, at least.
I still think that prices will fall back to early 2000 levels and would venture a guess that price stability across the board probably won't happen until 2011-2012 at the earliest. So you can put me down for 135 in 2013 and you can hold me to that. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a beer.
But let me ask you, what do you think the situation would be like this year if interest rates held at 6.5%, as they were a year ago, and without all the other government intervention?
I'm actually quite confident....let's wait until this winter and see where the prices go.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, the average rate of inflation for the US from 2000-2009 has been 2.65%. That gives an equivalent $126K in 2000 prices..give your market prediction of $160K.
What's the problem? Don't you see the graph posted on the bubble blog? Which part of it do you want me to explain to you?
Alas...as I said before, you shouldn't be scared partisan...you're too sure of yourself aren't you to be? Now run along and go buy those properties...we've hit the bottom.
Wireknob:
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone can predict the clear shape...but I don't think it's going to be a sudden drastic change.
Wireknob - thanks for the answer. I promise I will answer you in due course, but I dont want to veer off target as I now have both Noz and NonPartisan's attention.
ReplyDeleteSo again boys, you have predictions of 135 and 115 respectively, here is what Case Shiller futures says will happen:
Aug 09 = 162.0
Nov 09 = 160.0
Feb 10 = 162.0
May 10 = 163.0
Aug 10 = 167.0
Nov 10 = 160.0
May 11 = 165.0
Nov 11 = 192.0
May 12 = 163.4
Nov 12 = 163.4
Please correct as necessary to get us to your predicted price levels.
Already did....learn to interpret people's posts.
ReplyDeleteInterpret? Why "interpret" when its a matter of actual numbers?
ReplyDeleteAgain, you say we get to 135. Here is what Case Shiller futures says will happen:
Aug 09 = 162.0
Nov 09 = 160.0
Feb 10 = 162.0
May 10 = 163.0
Aug 10 = 167.0
Nov 10 = 160.0
May 11 = 165.0
Nov 11 = 192.0
May 12 = 163.4
Nov 12 = 163.4
Please correct as necessary to get us to your predicted price levels.
First of all, I agree that we need to adjust for inflation - and since we are in a period of deflation that Bernanke and Co. cannot stop, we can add -1-2% inflation effect. Agree!
ReplyDeleteand sure, Ill give you my predictions:
Nov '09 - 165
Nov 2010 - 145
Nov 2011 - 125
Nov 2012 - 112 (and new president)
Nov 2013 - 100
THEN we can start talking about the bottom.
W.A.L (watch and learn)
Thanks Nonpartisan - nice to see someone can answer a question when asked. I have some questions...actually tons of them, but I dont want to get distracted so I will W.A.L. For now.
ReplyDeleteSo, back to you Nozzle. Nonpartisan described most of the steps down to a absurdly doomish 100!!! So, can you describe the steps to get DC down to your 135?
I'm not going to explain the steps....because it's irrelevant to me.
ReplyDeleteI gave you a value, you disagreed.
As I have said over and over and over again....go and buy if you are sure. It doesn't matter what I say does it panzi-an?
Yeah I know...you're scared...petrified...shitting bricks. Whatever....since you are so sure, and you are so confident...for the umpteenth time...PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.
Don't concern yourself with how it will happen...concern yourself more so with buying up as many properties as you can and less with derailing the real issue here.....that you don't think prices will go down.
Now hurry along panzi-san....you're at the bottom!!!!! BUY BUY!!!!
For anyone scoring along at home Noz is now 0-6 for answering the question. Ill try again:
ReplyDeleteNoz - case shiller futres says it plays out like this
Aug 09 = 162.0
Nov 09 = 160.0
Feb 10 = 162.0
May 10 = 163.0
Aug 10 = 167.0
Nov 10 = 160.0
May 11 = 165.0
Nov 11 = 192.0
May 12 = 163.4
Nov 12 = 163.4
NonPartisan had the guts to give us some interim steps to his final prediction of bottom. Can you?
Or will it be 0-7?
partisan:
ReplyDeleteStop changing the subject...you look like an idiot when you do.
I told you already...I gave you a VALUE of what I think it'll go down to. I DON'T CARE about time line (didn't I say that already?) and I don't care about Case Shiller. If you believe in Case Shiller, then I guess than 192.0 value you threw out should be accepted as well.
CS is made for suckers like you.
AGAIN...AND AGAIN...AND AGAIN....GO AND BUY A PLACE IF YOU BELIEVE PRICES HAVE BOTTOMED.
That's the ultimate test in your beilefs...what I say is irrelevant to you after all.
I think you're full of it...anyone else care to agree or disagree about Partisan being a hypocritical pansy?
You don't practice what you preach...you're now stuck in a corner and don't know what to do. Instead, you deflect the real issue here..which is PRICE.
DO YOU HAVE THE BALLS PARTISAN? DO YOU BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU'RE DRIVELING ABOUT HERE EVERYDAY?
Personally I think you're completely full of shit and you've been called out on it. Now you don't know what to do.
GO AND BUY...and then come here and talk. I'll be here...waiting.
0 fer 7 it is!
ReplyDeleteLets see how long we can keep this going without a single number from Noz
Noz - again - case shiller futres says it plays out like this
Aug 09 = 162.0
Nov 09 = 160.0
Feb 10 = 162.0
May 10 = 163.0
Aug 10 = 167.0
Nov 10 = 160.0
May 11 = 165.0
Nov 11 = 192.0
May 12 = 163.4
Nov 12 = 163.4
NonPartisan had the guts to give us some interim steps to his final prediction of bottom. Can you?
Or, will it be 0 for 8? DANCE PUPPET DANCE!!!
0-8 it is!
ReplyDeleteWhat's the matter? Dealing with real money scare you? DC property suddenly not look so hot?
Partisan...GO AND BUY. Stop talking and GO AND BUY. You have no credibility left. Until then...just stfu.
I love my new toy. All I have to do is reiterate this question:
ReplyDelete"Noz - again - case shiller futres says it plays out like this
Aug 09 = 162.0
Nov 09 = 160.0
Feb 10 = 162.0
May 10 = 163.0
Aug 10 = 167.0
Nov 10 = 160.0
May 11 = 165.0
Nov 11 = 192.0
May 12 = 163.4
Nov 12 = 163.4
NonPartisan had the guts to give us some interim steps to his final prediction of bottom. Can you?"
And then, suddenly, he comes to life and dances around the question for all our amusement!
Speaking of which, since I said it again, he will now appear.
Appear puppet! Appear and dance for the masses!!!
Speaking of Shiller...see what he says about our ability to predict what will happen, much less the path things follow:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cnbc.com/id/32474763
Another housing bubble? Hmmm...
Fun stuff.
ReplyDeleteBoy, I can't wait til all the homes in DC fall to 1990 prices. I would've thought that prices were being depressed by the fact that my neighborhood was a shooting gallery with crackheads swarming the streets as recently as 5 years ago, and now there are a bunch of upper middle-class professionals pushing baby carriages around at night.
Oh, and the dozen high-end eateries that have all opened within walking distance, where once there was nothing but check-cashing joints, and boarded up buildings. Oh, and the fact that the local elementary school's demographics have changed radically, and now test-scores have skyrocketed.
But what can I say when faced with the implacable logic that apparently The Bell-Curve really, really wants to complete itself.
You guys are geniuses.
ibc said: "You guys are geniuses."
ReplyDeleteI guess we'll see...in due time. It wasn't so long ago that people denied there was a national housing bubble. They called people "stupid" for thinking otherwise. Now they're left denying that it will affect a particular zip code, or neighborhood, or street. You may be right. Your little corner of the world may hold up. We'll see.
You say those "upper middle-class professionals" bought into your neighborhood over the past five years. Housing prices must have been quite high then. What percentage of their household income do you think is going towards housing, figuring average house price and average household income over that time?
Right, but we're not talking about a "National Housing Bubble". We're talking about the effects of gentrification, skyrocketing commute times, and the changing preference among younger folks from exurban to close-in housing.
ReplyDeleteFor houses in my little corner of the world to fall to 1990 prices would mean $100k for a 1200 square foot townhouse less than a mile from the city center.
I won't say it's impossible for that to happen, but it would require a dirty bomb explosion, a catastrophic Race War (tm), revaluing the national currency, or the collapse of exurban house prices to a nickel a square foot.
Any of those could happen, but at that point as they say, we'll have other things to worry about.
Funny....there are many places around the country that have been gentrified are still going through gentrification that have lost substantial amounts of value.
ReplyDeleteJust because a place becomes gentrified does not mean home prices will continue to go up. That's a complete fallacy.
Funny....there are many places around the country that have been gentrified are still going through gentrification that have lost substantial amounts of value.
ReplyDeleteYou make an interesting point. Got a specific zip code in mind that's seen substantial run-up in value (like say 300%) over the last decade, only to collapse to pre-gentrification levels?
Detroit maybe? One of the less-desirable municipalities in California?
Many places in LA have....Tujunga, many parts of North Hollywood, Toluca Lake, Silverlake, etc...
ReplyDeleteThere are many many areas...the for sales signs (many of which are by owner) are everywhere,..even in Santa Monica areas.
I also forgot to mention...many places in AZ and NV, Texas, etc that are being "gentrified"...riverwalks added, etc are also collapsing fast.
ReplyDeleteThe funniest part about the argument between noz, non-partisan and partisan....
ReplyDeleteis that in 2013 they will probably still be arguing about when the bottom will be, because if the bottom hasnt hit yet, one thing is for CERTAIN, and I mean like death and taxes certain.....prices are NOT EVER GOING TO GO UP in the DC area for at least 15 years at the point they are at now.
Many places in LA have....Tujunga, many parts of North Hollywood, Toluca Lake, Silverlake, etc...
ReplyDeleteOk, so (with my limited knowledge of the LA market) Zillow says that the median home price in Silver Lake (90039) was $229k in 1990, $678k at the peak in 2008, and now down to $500k. Meanwhile, a gentrified zip in DC--say 20002--was at $100k peaked at $400k, and currently sits at $350k
Many places in AZ and NV, Texas, etc that are being "gentrified" ... riverwalks added, etc are also collapsing fast.
I think one problem is that you and I may have a different conception of the term "gentrification". Aside from that, the run-up in prices in AZ and NV was pretty much the definition of speculative madness.
ibc said: "For houses in my little corner of the world to fall to 1990 prices..."
ReplyDeleteWho said anything about 1990 prices? I may have missed it, but I only recall seeing predicted price declines to late 90's to early 2000s levels. I agree with you that a fall to 1990 prices would be exceedingly unlikely, and I'm pretty pessimistic. Sounds like your area probably won't even fall to early 2000 levels if it has improved as much as you say (i.e., it's inherent value has increased).
But prices still have to fall in line with incomes, no? That was the point of my earlier question. Just because something is more desirable doesn't mean that enough people can afford to pay current prices for it and sustain those prices. The higher the price the lower the demand, right? Are homes like yours in such short supply relative to the population of upper middle-class types that can afford them?
There is a lot of very desirable, and very expensive, housing in the DC area. Are there enough people making enough money to keep the prices for that housing afloat in the longer run, though? Looking at a sampling of the data, housing prices are clearly out of line with incomes in many areas around here. Perhaps not in your area, though.
"I won't say it's impossible for that to happen, but it would require a dirty bomb explosion, a catastrophic Race War (tm)...."
ReplyDeleteOr foreclosures on the liar loans and the banks not loaning people who only make the average family household $80K salary $1M to buy that box you call a rowhouse.
Looking at a sampling of the data, housing prices are clearly out of line with incomes in many areas around here. Perhaps not in your area, though...
ReplyDeleteNot that my opinion matters much, but I think it's pretty obvious that there was a housing bubble nationally, and in the "DC area".
I just think it's amusing when folks fail to recognize there's a difference between price increases in, say, Dumfries, VA, versus what were some of the most burnt-out urban hell-holes in the country, but are now pleasant upper-middle class enclaves.
Like you said, in many areas, prices are out of line with incomes. But urban crime and blight had an incredibly distorting effect on the DC market proper for many, many years--I would argue more so than any other RE market in the country.
Here, let me fix that for you:
ReplyDelete...banks not loaning people who only make the average family household $150K salary $500k to buy that box you call a rowhouse.
Your welcome.
"Wireknob said...
ReplyDeleteBut prices still have to fall in line with incomes, no? That was the point of my earlier question. Just because something is more desirable doesn't mean that enough people can afford to pay current prices for it and sustain those prices. The higher the price the lower the demand, right? Are homes like yours in such short supply relative to the population of upper middle-class types that can afford them?"
EXACTLY!!! So lets be clear about what we are talking about here. After seeing that Census data, on the income growth in Arlington & Alexandria, I will concede those areas are pretty bulletproof. And maybe, MAYBE DC, although the jury is still out on that.
But where else? Where else did they have that huge runup in income and ton of gentrification? The data doesnt say ANYWHERE else in DC area had the type of gains Arlington & Alexandria did.
So, for the rest of the DC area, especially the high end, I still think their day or reconing is coming...and I cant wait to see it!
"After seeing that Census data, on the income growth in Arlington & Alexandria, I will concede those areas are pretty bulletproof."
ReplyDeleteExactly as Lance and others predicted.
Not in my neighborhood...
...Thanks.
runup in income and ton of gentrification
ReplyDeleteYou'll probably see the next big price gains in Hyattsville, around RFK, and east of the river, would be my guess.
"...banks not loaning people who only make the average family household $150K salary $500k to buy that box you call a rowhouse."
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm way too conservative. I would never take on a $500K mortgage with an income of $150K. I guess that's part of why I'm still renting.
ibc, I agree that there is too much generalization in the discussion. I also share the opinion that DC area housing was somewhat undervalued back in the late 90s, when I moved here.
By the way, what are those income numbers for Arlington & Alexandria. I see in 2007 that the estimated median household income in Alexandria City was about $80K (it was $56K in 1999) and the median home value was about $555K (it was $202K in 2000). 2007 seems out of whack to me, especially when compared to the ratio around 2000. Arlington was similar in the aggregate. Have things changed since then? (source: city-data.com)
IBC:
ReplyDeleteOk, so (with my limited knowledge of the LA market) Zillow says that the median home price in Silver Lake (90039) was $229k in 1990, $678k at the peak in 2008, and now down to $500k. Meanwhile, a gentrified zip in DC--say 2002--was at $100k peaked at $400k, and currently sits at $350k
I'll bet the run up in those areas is also out of phase. Just a guess...
"Here, let me fix that for you:
ReplyDelete...banks not loaning people who only make the average family household $150K salary $500k to buy that box you call a rowhouse.
Your welcome."
Are you putting potomac salaries in PG county again?
Ajax said: "Exactly as Lance and others predicted. Not in my neighborhood..."
ReplyDeleteDon't break out the champagne just yet. Interest rates are being kept extremely and artificially low right now. That has done a lot to put a floor under prices this year. What do you think will happen when rates go back up to 6.5%? How about 7.5%?
That's right, buyers' top line will be pushed down by up to 20%. This will be enforced by the lending banks and this happens across the board, so no place is immune to the effect of rising interest rates. And rates will definitely rise.
I'm pretty sensitive to this issue since, as a potential buyer, I see my approved loan amount fluctuate in lockstep with the interest rate. It also makes me wary of buying when housing is affordable only because interest rates are very low. The low interest rates are only favorable when prices haven't risen to match them.
Anon wrote:
ReplyDeleteForeclosures on the liar loans and the banks not loaning people who only make the average family household $80K salary $1M to buy that box you call a rowhouse.
And now writes:
Are you putting potomac salaries in PG county again?
$1M townhouses in PG county? Wow, I don't get out into the burbs that often, is that pretty common?
As bad as the suburban RE bubble sounds, it must be worse than I thought.
"$1M townhouses in PG county? Wow, I don't get out into the burbs that often, is that pretty common?"
ReplyDeleteNo I was replying to this you utter complete moron. Learn to follow a conversation.
"banks not loaning people who only make the average family household $150K salary $500k to buy that box you call a rowhouse."
$150K a year is on par or even MORE than what average families in Potomac make.
$500K for a box rowhouse in or around PG county is pretty common as well.
Does this clear things up for your pea brain? Its funny how stupid you are.
"$150K a year is on par or even MORE than what average families in Potomac make.
ReplyDelete"
Got to becareful there because there is a lot of old money in Potomac and business owners who report income based on the salery they pay themself vs what they are actually making.
Got to becareful there because there is a lot of old money in Potomac and business owners who report income based on the salery they pay themself vs what they are actually making.
ReplyDeleteExactly.
And talking about "average salary" in the District is almost completely meaningless, as income doesn't fall on a normal distribution. There are a lot of DC residents (mostly renters) who live in poverty. Much more so than in Potomac, or any other local municipality.
It's the same reason that a high unemployment rate in the District doesn't necessarily have any bearing on foreclosure rates. The folks who buy homes in DC are not the sort of folks who lose their jobs in large numbers in this economy.
From a 2007 WaPo article:
"The disparities are particularly pronounced in the District, which ranks third in income inequality among cities with populations of 300,000 or more. Non-Hispanic whites in the District have a median household income of $91,631, and the figure drops to $34,484 for blacks. Hispanic residents fare only slightly better, with a median household income of $43,547. Asians have a median household income of $67,137."
That's $91,000/year for non-Hispanic whites, in a city that has a particularly high renter population. It makes sense that the median household income for non-renters would be even higher.
Anyway, the disparities make any kind of simplistic analysis useless. So long as gentrification continues apace, DC housing prices will be stable.
Oh, and anon 8:53: Decaf buddy. Shrill, frothing is bad for the blood pressure, and invites a host of maladies.
Damnit, I meant Anon 8:00. Vague apologies to Anon 8:53.
ReplyDelete...and now then they come back and say home prices and household incomes dont really matter anyway!
ReplyDeleteTHE BEST!
p.s. ibc, that encyclopedia that took you 4 hours to write bored me and I didnt even read it.
ibc, that encyclopedia that took you 4 hours to write bored me and I didnt even read it.
ReplyDeleteNo offense taken! I figured you wouldn't read it, or even if you managed to muddle through it, that you'd be capable of understanding how it related to your fatuous claims about income/price. It was for general consumption.
Cheers!
ibc, that encyclopedia that took you 4 hours to write bored me and I didnt even read it.
ReplyDeleteNo offense taken! I figured you wouldn't read it, or even if you managed to muddle through it, that you'd be capable of understanding how it related to your fatuous claims about income/price. It was for general consumption.
Cheers!