Thursday, May 25, 2006

New McMansion in Washington, DC

Newly Constructed McMansion in Northwest Washington, DC
Posted by David at 3:01 AM

27 comments:

  1. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 6:14 AM

    I've said this before, but why can't they use brick in the DC area anymore?

    This is another thing that makes me a huge housing bubble believer. They are not even building nice houses. Yeah, they may have granite countertops and nice fixtures, but inside a plastic house!

    Now, I don't want to criticize plastic houses from a snob's point of view. I grew up in a plastic house. But what I am saying is, a plastic house should be sold at a plastic house price, which is not more than 300K. If someone is ever going to get me to plunk down more than 300K for a house, that house had better be brick or stone ALL the way around.

    This housing bubble is all about the disconnect between price and value. Plastic houses (like the one I grew up in) are fine for living in, but they better not be high-priced, and they certainly should not be the way anything called a mansion, even a McMansion, is made.

    A Redskins fan

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  2. aeronet_412May 25, 2006 7:43 AM

    I recently visited my grandmother in Denver. She was going off about the housing prices and mentioned no down 100% I/O ARMs and unqualified buyers pushing foreclosures up. I was surprised to hear this 80 year old woman covering some of the basic points of the housing bubble. She doesn't visit bubble blogs or any internet sites and only gets news from the Denver Post and cable TV. I think awareness about the unsustainable speculative forces in the housing market have reached a large number of people now.

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  3. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 8:04 AM

    "If someone is ever going to get me to plunk down more than 300K for a house, that house had better be brick or stone ALL the way around."

    How many people feel the way you do? I certainly share this point of view.

    Remember; the British burned most of DC down during the war of 1812. The President then mandated that all new construction be *brick*. I don't know when compliance with that mandate stopped, but I do know that my 100+ year old home was made by craftsmen out of brick. Not only all the way around, but throughout the DEPTH of the walls as well.

    "brick" houses today tend to be plastic houses with decorative (non-structural) brick facades.

    bryce

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  4. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 8:36 AM

    ""brick" houses today tend to be plastic houses with decorative (non-structural) brick facades."

    Glad to see you coming around, bryce. I agree. These are the ugliest. Slap up a brick wall and then put three plastic sides around it.

    The funny thing is, down in Dallas, where the median house will run you about $150,000, you get a house that is brick ALL the way around for a much, much, lower price. (I do not know if these houses are structurally brick at depth, but they are still an improvement on DC area houses).

    Of course, where I probably still disagree with you, bryce, is that while all brick would be necessary for me to shell out the dough for a house, it does not mean that any all brick house is worth a lot. Still, it is interesting that the best houses in the DC area are the older ones, because they are the only all brick ones.

    A Redskins fan

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  5. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 9:04 AM

    I've said this before, but why can't they use brick in the DC area anymore?

    This is another thing that makes me a huge housing bubble believer. They are not even building nice houses. Yeah, they may have granite countertops and nice fixtures, but inside a plastic house!

    Now, I don't want to criticize plastic houses from a snob's point of view. I grew up in a plastic house. But what I am saying is, a plastic house should be sold at a plastic house price, which is not more than 300K. If someone is ever going to get me to plunk down more than 300K for a house, that house had better be brick or stone ALL the way around.

    This housing bubble is all about the disconnect between price and value. Plastic houses (like the one I grew up in) are fine for living in, but they better not be high-priced, and they certainly should not be the way anything called a mansion, even a McMansion, is made.

    A Redskins fan

    _________________________________

    Funny thing about these houses is, they're really easy to break into, just kick right through the wall. Vynil siding, then waxed cardboard of 2x3s, the sheetrock. What's to stop someone from just taking 30 seconds and kicking a human sized hole right in the side of the house?

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  6. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 9:43 AM

    "Glad to see you coming around, bryce"

    Coming around?! I've been anti-suburb my entire life! And I grew up in the 'burbs. (What better way to get to know just how soul-sapping the 'burbs can be?)

    I've been arguing here that outer-suburban "neighborhoods" (if you can call them that) are going to see massive devaluation in the coming years. (you can search on my old posts and to see that is true) I think my message is overlooked by hotheads in the suburbs who don't like the fact that I defend YOUR nation's captial while pointing out the many downsides of suburban living.

    "while all brick would be necessary for me to shell out the dough for a house"

    Perhaps it isn't enough incentive for you; but for some people, the convenience of having no commute is worth a lot of money. Toss a beautiful old, solid brick house into the package, and you have a very attractive package for a lot of people. For many people, it comes down to lifestyle (which includes not living in a cheaply constructed house).

    "What's to stop someone from just taking 30 seconds and kicking a human sized hole right in the side of the house?"

    LOL! I've had the same thought myself, especially when living in such a house in the 'burbs. You might be exposed to a little (cheap) fiberglass insulation, but otherwise, you're in!

    bryce

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  7. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 9:51 AM

    I don't know about the DC area (whatever that may be) but brick and stone is still commonly used in DC proper. This picture is not representative of new construction or the housing stock in general in DC. Housing in many DC neighborhoods are still required to be constrcted with brick due to historic preservation requirements. Also, the siding appears to be cedar shingles not plastic. Suburban presumptions are often not applicable to DC.

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  8. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 9:58 AM

    Advice that's worth every penny you paid:

    It's your site and your time. The vast majority of the masses who have found their way to the on switch and a keyboard (against all odds) generally aren't worth the time it takes to deal with.

    So delete to your heart's content and don't waste your time explaining, justifying or otherwise gratifying the targets of your ire.

    There are a billion sites on the Web -- they can find one they like if they don't like yours.

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  9. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 10:00 AM

    Brick is best! Vinyl is vain!

    Or something like that.

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  10. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 10:04 AM

    Very interesting. I thought I liked brick because I come from Europe, and I was convinced that wood houses were prevalent here because people in the US preferred wood and that wood shingles were people's top choice. Not true apparently!

    I also thought modern houses were better because of better insulation, better windows, etc.

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  11. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 10:23 AM

    Yes, let's make everything brick, that way, every single house will look exactly the same.

    I grew up in a exurban home with cedar siding and 6 inch exterior walls... And it was every bit as solid as the so-called brick homes you guys seem to think are so much more indicative of quality.

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  12. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 10:25 AM

    By the way, I think the whole McMansion craze has gone way overboard. This looks like an attractive home.

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  13. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 10:26 AM

    "let's make everything brick, that way, every single house will look exactly the same"

    There is a little something called "architectural design". Look into it.

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  14. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 10:48 AM

    "By the way, I think the whole McMansion craze has gone way overboard. This looks like an attractive home. "

    Yes it's attractive by itself. When you see dozens of the same houses crammed together surrounded by little lawn patches and lots of asphalt and concrete, then it's UGLY!

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  15. DC_TooMay 25, 2006 10:51 AM

    Folks, just thought I would point out that commodity prices have risen astronomically over the past few years. That means building materials - lumber, copper, cement and yes, even bricks have gotten very expensive. I would take a wild guess that because of the "demand" for houses, due, no doubt in part, to their tremendous potential as investment vehicles, builders have gotten away with cutting a lot of corners.

    Let's not forget that anything with four walls and a roof sold in three hours a year ago. It will be intersting to see, should housing "level out" price-wise, whether anyone re-focuses on construction quality.

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  16. Tulip Bulb ManiacMay 25, 2006 11:19 AM

    Where do I click to sell? lol

    http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/rfs/164510799.html

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  17. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 11:32 AM

    Actually, brick houses were once the norm in this area, and not just in DC itself, but suburban Maryland also.

    And new houses are being made of all brick in Dallas right now, so I don't think it's commodity prices.

    I suspect it is more a labor cost issue. Bricks are probably more expensive to handle. And it probably takes longer. I've seen them slap up some of these plastic houses-- it doesn't take very long.

    A Redskins fan

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  18. DC_TooMay 25, 2006 12:24 PM

    It doesn't take any longer to build a house with high-quality materials, like good old fashioned lumber, either. That someone is building a brick house in Dallas does not refute the fact that bricks cost a lot more than they did five years ago.

    The larger point is, like I said, anything with four walls and a roof qualified as "a house," and therefor a sure fire 'investment.' The chickens will come home to roost when staples start coming out of the walls while market prices are dropping.

    And O/T, but I can tell you that friends of mine involved with N. VA volunteer fire departments make no secret of the fact that there are developments identified in that area in which firefighters are forbiden to climb up on roofs. This is unfortunate, as cutting a hole in the roof is a standard firefighting tactic that can save houses and lives. Why won't they do it? Construction quality. They can't count on a roof, in some of these places, to support two firefighters and a power saw. It's not worth the risk, so they get the kids and pets out, and let the places burn.

    And no, building codes generaly do not address this issue. Cheap roof trusses are stapled together - the expansion and contraction that occurs in a fire can cause these things to sometimes just fall apart.

    I'm with Bryce on this one. A hundred year-old brick house gets my vote every time.

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  19. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 12:41 PM

    "Remember; the British burned most of DC down during the war of 1812. The President then mandated that all new construction be *brick*."

    I saw an interesting show on the all brick buildings. New York was a biggie. They ran out of clay in the brick yards. Brick masons used to be a very prevalent trade.

    You are right about the new "brick" construction. That is im my opinion a very poor way to build houses. They can use styrofoam or black board or even OSB, put on a layer of Tyvek, then slap on a veneer of brick. A bunch of these veneers came off in the gulf hurricanes, and are expected to do so in a quake.

    I am in the process of figuring out how my home (not house) will be built. One leading candidate is ICF (foam forms with concrete walls inside). Problem is it adds a lot of cost over the cheap construction, which includes brick veneer. Sure would be nice though if a hurricane hit.

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  20. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 12:45 PM

    "I am in the process of figuring out how my home (not house) will be built. "

    www.kodiaksteelhomes.com (?) I don't know much about them, but I'm on their email distro list.

    bryce

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  21. DC_TooMay 25, 2006 12:48 PM

    Indeed Anon - but, do you live in a place w/hurricane exposure? Apparently, most hurricane damage occurs from windows being blown out which in turn creates a sort of weird vaccum that rips the roof off, thus filling the house with rainwater. You can prevent it by reinforcing your roof structure (cheap) and sealing the windows, properly, with shutters or even plywood (even cheaper). Man, we are off-topic. Hope David doesn't delete us :)

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  22. DavidMay 25, 2006 12:55 PM

    you are ok. Interesting topic.

    :-)

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  23. AnonymousMay 25, 2006 12:58 PM

    "It doesn't take any longer to build a house with high-quality materials, like good old fashioned lumber, either. That someone is building a brick house in Dallas does not refute the fact that bricks cost a lot more than they did five years ago."

    dc-too

    I agree with most of your post, but I think it does refute the idea that the reason brick houses aren't being built in the DC area is the cost of brick, as brick houses are being built, in great number, in Dallas, where housing prices are much cheaper.

    I agree with the rest of what you said, though.

    A Redskins fan

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  24. dcbubble.blogspotMay 25, 2006 3:07 PM

    David,

    This photo proves that its not just the suburbs that are unsustainable from an energy perspective.

    http://dcbubble.blogspot.com/2006/05/wapo-scolds-its-suburban-readership.html

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  25. DC_TooMay 25, 2006 3:13 PM

    Fair enough Redskins fan. I didn't mean to say it was bricks alone, just that cheapie construction becomes much more commonplace in a sellers market combined with increasingly expensive building materials.

    I also think that, generally, the land underneath a house in DC is probably driving the ultimate house cost to a greater extent than in Dallas, even though they're not making any more land in Texas, either. After all, land, labor and materials are the three drivers.

    I'd guess that material costs are reasonably constant, nationwide. Labor is probably more variable and land, well, we know that story.

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  26. AnonymousMay 26, 2006 12:49 AM

    What was the asking price for the porta-john?

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  27. DavidMay 26, 2006 8:02 AM

    100K! Used negative amortization to purchase.

    LOL!

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