In the MSNBC article: "California or bust!" That's been the mantra for generations of Americans who wanted to ride the wave of westward migration. Now, the tide may be turning, as families turn back to their Midwestern roots, searching for a more affordable lifestyle for themselves and their children. "
"The average cost of a house in the suburban Midwest costs anywhere from $100 to $120 per square foot. On the East coast, you can pay from $300 to $325 a square foot. If you want to live on the West coast, some areas run as high as $500 per square foot."
"Taxes are another big reason that families are moving away from coastal properties. "
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skytrekker-
ReplyDeleteI am an East Coaster who works around people who probably value many of the same things you seem to.
I have found that many of the amenities that coastal people think exist only on the coasts are all over the country.
For example, there are tons of good chefs all over the country. Tons of good bookstores. University towns are the same everywhere.
I think that one really doesn't need to live on the coasts to get much of life, other than great museums and beaches. But unless you go those things more than 4-5 times a year, what is the difference?
I am willing to pay a premium to be near cultural ammenities (opera, symphony, good cinema, great restaurants, good bookstores, dance companies, etc), the ocean, to have great weather(but not in the summer!) and two international airports. I also love the walkability of San Francisco, its proximity to Napa and Sonoma and the natural setting of the city. I guess it comes down to what you are willing to trade off for your lifestyle. Most people I know in the Bay Area who have a great lifestyle and beautiful homes are either extremely hard workers (my husband and my friends' husbands work 70 hours a week or so) or have inherited wealth.
ReplyDeleteIf the cultural things don't interest you, and you aren't in a field where you are required to be in a certain urban area, you could certainly find an area that would make you happy for far less money than it costs to live in the Bay Area. You could always vacation or take a weekend in a city if you are a two time a year museum person. I just don't understand people killing themselves or taking great financial risk to live someplace that they don't really value more than other places.
Most people I know in the Bay Area who have a great lifestyle and beautiful homes are either extremely hard workers (my husband and my friends' husbands work 70 hours a week or so) or have inherited wealth.
ReplyDeleteSo...if you don't have inherited wealth your lifestyle of 70 hour work weeks is horrible.
Why not live in a cool college town, where there is a ton of culture and the living is cheap?
Yes, all you working drones please put your houses on the market and head for the midwest so the rest of us with a clear memory of how dreadful living in the midwest is can buy your houses for cheap and live the good life in california while you all are shoveling snow and watching television all winter. I'll be in Tahoe or at the ocean or in San Fran (one of the greateste cities in the world) or in wine country toasting your newfound mundandity!
ReplyDeleteActually, if you love your job working long hours isn't an awful lifestyle. It's only awful if you are forced to work long hours at something you don't enjoy to support your lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people in such fieleds as corporate law, mergers and acquisitions, money management or venture capital can't go move to small midwestern college towns unless they want to spend the rest of their lives on airplanes flying to see clients. There are some industries only located in expensive urban areas. And no, telecommuting to meetings doesn't work. The investors want to see you face to face.
Unfortunately, although we need teachers and firemen and nurses in San Francisco, it is very, very difficult for them to live here on their salaries. Also, with corporate lawyers, my husband's large, first tier law firm has a very difficult time recruiting lawyers from anywhere other than the Bay Area or NYC to San Francisco. Lateral transfer associates can make $250,000 or so a year, but the hit in their standard of living, due to housing costs and sometimes the private school tuitions, is so great that most aren't willing to move here. Sure, when they have been partner for a few years they can afford to buy something here, but not anything great as an associate. We were able to buy a beautiful condominium in Pacific Heights while my husband was an associate, and that is no longer possible for younger people. I hope the market comes down so that we can keep young, vibrant people in the city, and attract more families. If the real estate situation doesn't normalize we will become a very third-worldish city of the very rich and the poor, without a thriving middle class.
ReplyDeleteOK. I've been there, and outside of Chicago I do believe you're right. It's not called the Fly-Over for nothin'.
ReplyDeletehaving lived in Mpls/St Paul for five years I can safely say the Twin Cities (and Chicago) are worth a look, if you're coming from the coasts. both are world-class cities with extensive cultural amenities, universities, museums, etc., but the cost of living in both is high, realtive to the midwest at least. winters are long and hard and butt-cold. summers in the Twins aren't as awful as Chicago, but winters are worse.
ReplyDeleteas for the rest of the midwest, prices are low because earnings are low, and there's no there there. coastal yuppies bloated with cash from an Irvine condo sale probably won't be real happy in Kansas City or Des Moines.
As someone who is originally from the east coast (Boston), grew up in the Midwest (Columbus), and has lived or spent extended amounts of time on the east coast (Philadelphia, DC, and Baltimore), the west coast (Bay area, Portland), and the Midwest (Chicago, Cleveland, and Bloomington, IN) I always get a kick out of reading comments about the Midwestern "cultural wasteland".
ReplyDeleteHaving lived in the "hip" parts of some supposedly "hip" cities, I've noticed that the people who live in these trendy areas don't tend to be any more cultured or sophisticated than those that I meet when I'm visiting my parents, who still live in Columbus. If anything the people in my current area (northern VA) seem to be a little more shallow, being more concerned with money and status than culture. I'd suspect that many of the people who brag about all of the museums on the coasts spend more time in shopping malls than attending cultural events.
Speaking of museums, I found an interesting link on the Web:
City Search's best Museums in the U.S.
(http://best.citysearch.com/cities/2002/7723)
Of the 10 museums listed, five are in the Midwest and one is in Texas. I've been to the Cleveland Museum of Art many times and I frequently visit the Wexner Center for the Arts when I'm in Columbus, and I've enjoyed my visits to these institutions as much as any place on either of the coasts. granted, there is a significantly greater quantity of museums and other cultural centers in many of the coastal cities, however this has much to do with many of the coastal cities being larger than Midwestern cities on average. Regardless, if you're one who likes to visit museums and/or go to the symphony more than a few times a month, you might find this relative lack of quantity of some Midwestern cities gets a little stale. I've also noticed that a greater portion of the visitors to Midwestern museums are natives while a large percentage of coastal museums are tourists. This means that Midwestern museums are typically less crowded and better places to meet people.
On the weather:
If you're coming from just about any place on the west coast, Midwestern weather will seem very harsh to you. If you're coming from the northern east coast (from DC up), the weather won't really be any worse. Unfortunately many Midwestern cities have high crime rates, so it often isn't very safe to wander around downtown after an evening at a museum or symphony.
On college towns:
Before moving to Dc I lived in Bloomington, IN for a few years and I must say that I really liked it there. It was small (~80,000 people), but it was a very pleasant and relatively inexpensive place to live. It also is good for cultural activities, especially if you like music. Indiana University's music school is one of the nation's best (right up there with Julliard and Eastman). Throughout my time there, I saw numerous recitals and concerts performed by world class musicians, often for free. Many other college towns offer similar high standards of living, however they are small, and if you prefer living in cities, you can feel a little isolated living in them.
In the end, although I was born and have lived the majority of my life on the coasts, I still refer to myself as a Midwesterner, and I'm proud of it. I've found that the people of the Midwest are among the most pleasant and tolerant people of this country, and to refer to them as "hicks" is to show one's ignorance and naivety, as well as just being uncouth.
As a current Chicago north shore resident, who grew up on the east coast, I'd like to second the pro-midwestern comments of the "anonymous" above. And I'd like to tell "skytrekker" that anyone who uses myself instead of me in the sentence "These issues . . . would prevent myself from ever considering living there," has no business accusing anyone of denied inferiority.
ReplyDeleteLet me pile on here. Current DC (or more exactly NoVA) resident, grew up in NYC, lived in NYC, LA, Ohio, North Dakota and some time in Belgium. The supposed cultured people talking trash about flyover country don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. I second the second post before mine. I loved living in Ohio (Dayton area). Wonderful, unpretentious, friendly people. Some of the best festivals (Sauerkraut festival, anyone?) in the country, and great hiking and lakes within an hours' drive. I loved Cincinnati and Columbus for their cultural and culinary offerings, and the cost of living was very reasonable. Don't get me wrong, I love NYC and DC and even LA to a certain degree, but to say there's nothing in between is just a load of crap.
ReplyDelete"I love NYC and DC and even LA to a certain degree, but to say there's nothing in between is just a load of crap."
ReplyDeleteAmen. Well put. I also grew up in the Midwest. There is some wonderful places in between the coasts.
Please, stop defending the Midwest. Do you want the people on the coasts to come here and inundate us with their coastalness? I moved away from CA to the Midwest, and the last thing I want is more stinking Californians and other coastal-types coming here and making my state just like the cesspool that I left. Let them believe that the Midwest sucks, so that those of us who know better can enjoy it without having them come here and mess it up. I've seen other states like Arizona and Colorado get more and more like California over the years, and I DON'T want that to happen to my state in the Midwest.
ReplyDelete"I love Chicago- bit it is NO NY LA OR Boston or DC."
ReplyDeleteIts better. Chicago rocks. So much to do there and not bubblicious like NYC, LA, Boston, or DC.
skytrekker wrote:
ReplyDeleteif I move to the midwest- as a gay man will I face discrimination? Will I have rights as a human being? NONE of you backwoods hinterland stooty wananbbees have addressed that!! Or on Stem cell research- where my Dear beloved mother who suffers from Alzhiemers- is she a hopeless case in Omaha or wonderful Columbus?
One the stem cell issue:
from: http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/genetics/embfet.htm
"Several states have authorized funding for stem cell research in 2004 and 2005... State funding for adult stem cell research was already occurring in at least one state, Ohio... Illinois Governor Blagojevich signed an executive order to create the Illinois Regenerative Medicine Institute and provide for grants to medical research facilities for adult and embryonic stem cell research. Meanwhile, grant programs for stem cell research have yet to get underway in California and New Jersey with some obstacles related to funding or oversight issues."
In addition to the wealth of medical research going on in the Midwest, the region is also home to such auspicious medical institutions as the Cleveland Clinic and the Mayo Clinic.
On the gay issue:
My previous home in Bloomington, IN proudly houses the Kinsey Institute. The Institute does extensive research and advocacy of gay sexuality.
My childhood home of Columbus is at least as gay tolerant as any place that I've lived on the either of the coasts (Ok, maybe the bay area is more tolerant, but not by much). In fact, my high school had an openly gay teacher, and the school board never seemed to have any problems with this.
Some links on this topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_tourism
"Columbus, Ohio: Home to the Chrome Party which is the new version of the Red Party which was the first Circuit Party ever held and started the Circuit Party scene. Columbus has several gay neighborhoods and a huge gay nightlife. The city has over 30 gay bars which is proportionally high."
In addition to bars, Columbus has numerous businesses that are openly gay-owned.
Also, Columbus is home to one of the country's largest gay pride parades. which drew about 100,000 people last year.
http://www.stonewallcolumbus.org/Home/news_center.aspx?AGuid=77ae1737-9d4d-45bb-9983-f53876c86eb5&ReqPId=2
from http://www.funmaps.com/ohio.htm :
"Friendly Gay Columbus
Columbus is the largest city in Ohio, the 15th largest in the United States and the fastest growing city in the northeast quadrant. It is within 550 miles of one-half of the nation's population, meaning Columbus is less than one day's drive for many U.S. residents. To locals, Columbus is known as "the big little city" because of its positive business climate, while retaining an "all-American" town feel thanks largely to its pubs, art districts, fine food, active nightlife and historic neighborhoods. To the gay & lesbian community, the renaissance of the city has translated into an openness and vibrance felt throughout many areas. "
And also Google says that Columbus is a good place to be gay :)
http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=174351
"If a cold winter climate is no problem, I would highly recommend
Columbus, Ohio. It has the largest gay population between coasts,
even larger than Chicago's. There is a good social life centered
around the areas of German Village and the Short North (both are
upscale neighborhoods). The city is amazingly tolerant considering
its midwestern and Bible belt location.
You will find a good assortment of bars and restaurants which cater to
the kids and in all price ranges. The gay flag flys openly on the
front of several buildings and the Short North district will remind
you in many ways of West Hollywood. (other than the weather, again)
Columbus is fast growing and there are job opportunities even when the
rest of the country in in a downturn. The high-tech sector is
expanding rapidly as well as medical research, communication research,
and more. Columbus is also an affordable city in which to live.
There are gay service organizations which are among the best in the
nation. Two fairly large gay newspapers and several smaller
publications.
From "Gay Columbus" - "Columbus, Ohio has one of the most vibrant gay
communities in the country. It has been rated as one of the safest and
friendliest cities for gay people to live and work in, in the country.
It has one of the best anti discrimination laws around. There is
something for everyone in our community, somewhere in the city or one
of the surrounding cities.""
As I stated in my earlier post, I currently live in DC, and I love being here. However, the Midwest (especially the "Great Lakes States" ) is far from a backwater, and, as I stated in my earlier post, if anything I've often found the people of the Midwest on average to be slightly more sophisticated than those in many coastal cities.
skytrekker, with you being gay, I'm surprised that you aren't more tolerant of other people/regions and more critical of uninformed, cliched views of some regions of this country.
'It has the largest gay population between coasts, even larger than Chicago's."
ReplyDeleteI find it very hard to believe that Chicago a metro area with over 5 times the population has less gay people then Columbus, OH 1,693,906 ( US Census 2004)
Chicago 9,391,515 ( US Census 2004)
All of us in non-biotech states are just going to die an early death because we don't sponsor stem cell resarch.
ReplyDeleteWell, let's all thank the higher power of our choice that Skytrekker is staying on the coast(s). Frankly, I don't fancy running into anyone quite so strident, self-righteous, one dimensional and flat-out intolerant around my diverse and not-so-bubblicious neighborhood.
ReplyDeletePeace Out,
Chicago north shore